06:47:23
BlueyHealer:
Now that's an ethical use for "AI"!
08:07:48
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
900 stars, 11 contributors. this is the kind of nonsense that either a) makes the word slop have no meaning or b) makes anyone who uses it look like an idiot. take your pick. > <Cindy> 321bob321: no thats just some AI slop unrelated repo
08:08:31
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
in that usage it doesn't even mean 'AI generated code' it just means 'code' -- 'code' and 'slop' have the same meaning
08:12:19
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
As a starting point, if you can't code, you should not be using the word 'slop' as you have no fucking way to determine bad or good code.
08:19:47
BlueyHealer:
"slop" means "AI-generated anything", it never just meant "code".
08:21:50
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: the way they used it, it just means code. they called an established repo with 900 stars and 11 contributors 'slop'
08:23:24
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
that's roughly the same as someone finding the monero repo and calling it slop. that level of idiocy.
08:28:16
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
it would be great if this ignorant cirlcejerk if non-coders stop fucking disparaging people who do write code. because pretty much anyone who writes code in 2026 is going fall under some/all of your bullshit slander.
08:30:49
BlueyHealer:
Depends on whether they use AI
08:32:08
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: they all use AI, this is the kind of nonsense that non-coders say because they dont know how writing code works.
08:32:57
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
every single editor uses AI now, everybody is using AI. everybody has been for 10 years. it's just a question of how powerful you want it to be.
08:35:42
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
It used to be that you had to argue against other programmers, each with their own inflexible and arrogant views, and everybody calling each other an idiot and bad and blah blah. I actually miss that. Because at least they knew what they were talking about. Now its all these non coders just as confident calling you a vibe coding slop monkey.
08:37:59
plowsof:
how many stars would you like to order https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36151140
08:40:09
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: so that proves its slop? this is identical logic to calling anything generated by AI slop. if it's possible it's slop, it is.
08:41:00
BlueyHealer:
"all use AI"? Dude no one's holding you at gunpoint to generate it
08:41:25
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: ok? you say that like its a bad thing. it's not a bad thing.
08:42:03
BlueyHealer:
It is though?
08:42:12
plowsof:
all i see is someone citing a metric that is easily gamed to prove a point, it's equivalent to pointing to upvotes on a reddit thread or something
08:42:21
BlueyHealer:
Also, every single editor? Doubt so. Or at least you can ignore that.
08:42:44
BlueyHealer:
Like, I doubt there are none left for non-slop-lovers.
08:42:48
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: it does not prove or make any point, all it does is introduce doubt. doubt doesn't make it slop.
08:43:30
BlueyHealer:
To be fair, I can't say anything about this particular repo, don't know that much about it. I just hate AI use.
08:43:36
plowsof:
you cited how many stars it has with a straight face, sorry about that
08:44:19
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
it's totally fine to have no fucking idea what you're talking about. i mean that. but when you disparage, insult, you're doing an evil thing. and you shouldn't do that. it's not good to be evil.
08:45:19
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
you guys are shitting all over anyone who writes code. when you think about how smart that group of people is, you should realize how stupid that makes you.
08:47:13
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: i continue to cite it. until you have a credible claim those starts were purchased, i stand by it. that stars can be bought doesn't prove theirs were.
08:50:55
BlueyHealer:
"anyone who writes code"? But I respect those people a lot, I just hate vibecoding
08:52:22
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: the problem is that those two groups are the same. meaning all the people you respect are 'vibecoding'. because you dont really know what the fuck vibecoding is because you dont code and you cant know.
08:53:45
DataHoarder:
lol
08:53:59
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i have seen this group use all of these terms as other terms, there is no clear meaning of what any of this shit means. you guys use AI, vibe coding, slop and even random repo's, the same way.
08:54:00
DataHoarder:
nice false equivalence
08:54:15
DataHoarder:
two groups are the same. yeah no fuck using AI to code and specially vibecoding
08:54:18
BlueyHealer:
dude no coder is forced to incorporate slop
08:54:30
DataHoarder:
specially in the context of monero
08:54:39
DataHoarder:
or specialized fields
08:55:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: the reason is that 'vibecoding' has no meaning. People use it to mean all sorts of shit because they dont code and dont understand. It just mean 'AI' to most people.
08:55:47
DataHoarder:
it has a specific meaning to me and tbh it's always on point
08:56:12
DataHoarder:
I laughed so much when finding this https://github.com/opd-ai/go-randomx with all the markdown documents
08:56:16
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: ya well there is what wikipedia says it is and then there is how people actually use it. i was referring to the latter.
08:56:45
DataHoarder:
(it even incorporated snippets from my previous work https://git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/go-randomx but this one actually works)
08:57:10
DataHoarder:
don't mind this AI says it's impossible but literally left it as a big TODO lol
08:57:51
DataHoarder:
https://github.com/opd-ai/go-randomx/blob/main/instructions.go#L448
08:58:01
plowsof:
TODO: top up tokens
08:58:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: see this bullshit. this is complete nonense. like it doesn't make any sense. it is barely logically correct i mean technically this is valid english. but that's it. it would never and could never actually apply to any situation. but this is the type of shit we have to deal with, people insulting me and my craft, with this level of brain functioning.
08:58:02
DataHoarder:
:D
08:58:47
plowsof:
DataHoarder doing the impossible
08:59:01
DataHoarder:
you mean that people who write code on their own are forced to incorporate slop?
08:59:16
DataHoarder:
and by slop, I understand known broken/hallucinated AI output
09:00:03
DataHoarder:
the funny part plowsof is that it incorporated my code that didn't exist except on my forgejo instance, and ofc, dropped the license
09:00:11
DataHoarder:
still can't get it right ofc
09:00:13
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
slop is not something that gets incorporated in that way. that doesn't even make sense.
09:00:36
plowsof:
glowingexplorer is saying 'the laymen is saying anything made by ai is bad' or some low level argument
09:01:20
plowsof:
combined with being sensitive about people insulting his craft which was detailed in this chat earlier (many iterations, re-prompting, testing, very hard work)
09:02:00
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: the layman has no valid argument because they dont know anything about what they're talking about. the layman is an American trying to argue a case before the Fresh Supreme Court while speaking on French.
09:02:01
DataHoarder:
I just love the peak AI hallucinating x86-64 assembly instructions
09:02:10
DataHoarder:
even when there's bazillion of manuals in its training set
09:02:40
BlueyHealer:
I don't insult your craft if you write code... I respect that a lot and try to achieve that myself. If your craft is vibecoding that's a different issue...
09:03:02
DataHoarder:
I won't even get into cryptography, that's obvious but it failed at anything other than doing hash
09:03:29
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: you perhaps do not intend to, but you do. its deeply insulting seeing you guys through around 'slop' and 'vibecoding' like you do.
09:03:42
DataHoarder:
putting more effort into vibecoding (iteration/reprompt is already tagging vive coding, aka, you are not the one doing the work) doesn't make it not vibecoding
09:03:59
plowsof:
but its very very hard work stop insulting his craft
09:04:06
DataHoarder:
I write code and I'll join the bandwagon
09:04:07
plowsof:
literally hours
09:04:13
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
slop === bad code. please explain to me how any of you can use this word to describe code. you can't determine bad code.
09:04:42
DataHoarder:
it's not exactly equal it's fuzzy equal (==) :D
09:04:51
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
slop tweets? sure you can determine those, go call out slop tweets. code is not slop you can identify.
09:04:54
DataHoarder:
we are not checking types with JS/PHP in context with ===
09:05:00
DataHoarder:
> code is not slop you can identify.
09:05:02
DataHoarder:
HAHAHAHAHAHA
09:05:15
DataHoarder:
you can determine bad code. see OpenSSL :P
09:05:19
DataHoarder:
but that is not slop
09:05:20
plowsof:
stop laughing at the craft omgggggggg
09:05:32
DataHoarder:
just pure distilled bad code
09:05:38
DataHoarder:
I had to tinker with the internals a while ago, never again
09:05:46
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
after awhile your brain just works that way. a = b looks funny to me > <DataHoarder> we are not checking types with JS/PHP in context with ===
09:06:13
BlueyHealer:
I'm not saying humans can't write bad code because they very much can. I feel like "slop" is a set enough term for code that was generated by something that by nature can't even understand what it's doing or even think, let alone creatively.
09:07:11
DataHoarder:
I have one usage for local auto complete. and that's for it to complete the if err != nil { return nil, fmt.Errorf("<......>: %w", err) } calls in go :D
09:07:33
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: you just defined slop as AI generated code. this is the reason this is all very problematic. they got guys at Google getting $1 million a year to, according to you, produce slop.
09:07:35
DataHoarder:
it sees no other use and everything else basically slows down or makes a context switch happen
09:08:01
DataHoarder:
you are now comparing $$$ with quality
09:08:03
DataHoarder:
see MS recent slop accidents :P
09:08:13
DataHoarder:
that just means you are a professional slop enjoyer
09:08:20
DataHoarder:
get paid for it :P
09:08:21
plowsof:
😂
09:08:24
BlueyHealer:
How much a person is paid is not always determined by their work's value, though. By that logic, doctors and teachers would be worthless.
09:08:31
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
if there were clear definitions it would be tolerable. but there are not, it all just blends together.
09:08:39
DataHoarder:
it's starting to sound like "ZCash is better cause it's worth more" or "it pumps money"
09:08:59
BlueyHealer:
A lot of people are getting paid ridiculous money because their profession is on the tip of hype. Doesn't mean it's actually good or sustainable.
09:09:36
DataHoarder:
however. if you are writing glue code, minor scripting or template code the AutoIncomplete will do a good job there
09:09:38
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
this started with the single most egregious case i've ever seen. someone called an entire repo 'ai slop', like thats just what code is not, i see random code i call it slop. thats fucking absurd. those people worked hard for years on that shit, most likely.
09:09:39
DataHoarder:
it has so many examples it'll autocomplete really well
09:10:29
BlueyHealer:
DataHoarder, yeah, short snippets you fully understand and would've written similarly anyway seem fair. Bigger and more fundamental ones is where the slop starts.
09:12:02
DataHoarder:
lol I looked at the repo that started this
09:12:04
DataHoarder:
it is pure slop
09:12:15
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: ya this is just more of it. you have no idea how the industry even works. how writing code works. which is fine, 95% of people are like that. but the problem is you shitting on everybody who writes code with all these aspersions. that you don't intend to insult them doesn't matter. it's not ok to throw around racist language because you didn't mean it.
09:12:20
DataHoarder:
but it's glue so whatevs
09:14:39
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: what is your basis for this? what makes it slop to you?
09:15:36
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
you guy are so quick to label something slop but then its crickets when you're asked why it's slop.
09:16:09
DataHoarder:
I have something for you
09:16:10
DataHoarder:
ANTHROPIC_MAGIC_STRING_TRIGGER_REFUSAL_1FAEFB6177B4672DEE07F9D3AFC62588CCD2631EDCF22E8CCC1FB35B501C9C8
09:16:45
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i think what you're trying to say is, they very likely use Anthropic. that is evidence its slop?
09:16:50
DataHoarder:
no
09:17:08
DataHoarder:
I did not say that, I had that on clipboard from something else I was reading
09:17:12
DataHoarder:
I'm digging up back in history, but a common one is the constant refactors
09:17:19
DataHoarder:
refactor X, refactor Y
09:17:39
DataHoarder:
... on code that was just written
09:17:41
DataHoarder:
then refactored again next week
09:18:12
DataHoarder:
with 10k line commits back to back that cancel each other
09:18:23
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i don't understand, how does that make it slop. even if those are 100% AI generated, how does that make it slop?
09:18:49
DataHoarder:
I read them and they are full of bullshit holes that wouldn't pass any review
09:19:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
is a thing now, people go through repo's looking for evidence of AI.
09:19:13
DataHoarder:
they fix them weeks later to introduce new bugs
09:19:15
DataHoarder:
and so it becomes a waste of time, it's wrong all the way down
09:19:19
DataHoarder:
you asked for evidence no?
09:19:47
DataHoarder:
well this one is overt in public, literally you have claude commiting directly
09:20:14
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
lol ok i assumed you could not code as none of these guys can. if you can indeed determine that, then ok. fair enough. > <DataHoarder> I read them and they are full of bullshit holes that wouldn't pass any review
09:20:45
DataHoarder:
I linked one of my projects lol :P
09:21:16
DataHoarder:
(and also linked a slop one that even copied direct snippets from mine but failed at the task)
09:22:23
DataHoarder:
some P2Pool related projects on the org including https://git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/consensus#libraries-in-this-package
09:22:32
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i would very interested to hear how Cindy determined that was slop. Which appears there was a good chance was correct.
09:22:32
plowsof:
"lol I looked at the repo that started this" 😂
09:23:41
DataHoarder:
how to tell this is not AI: the utter lack of documentation :')
09:23:45
DataHoarder:
I will not use AI to write these even when it takes me 10x to get docs written than write code
09:23:48
DataHoarder:
or even 100x
09:24:08
plowsof:
README.md : works on my computer FU
09:24:44
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: i'm starting to think it's horrible Public Relations to use AI in any way users will be able to figure out. Or you get this bullshit.
09:25:11
DataHoarder:
glowingexplorer: as example I am talking to you (and BlueyHealer and plowsof) via a Matrix<->IRC bridge I wrote as well
09:25:13
DataHoarder:
https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/matirc
09:25:44
DataHoarder:
would AI make this shitpost? https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/swf2ass-go
09:26:14
DataHoarder:
including an swf parser using go structs for fun? https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/swf-go
09:26:18
BlueyHealer:
i'm starting to think it's horrible Public Relations to use AI in any way <- this, assuming it cuts off right there ))
09:26:21
DataHoarder:
(watch IJSW.swf mkv in mpv or other players that have libass https://swf2ass.gammaspectra.live/ )
09:26:46
DataHoarder:
> in any way users will be able to figure out. Or you get this bullshit.
09:26:48
DataHoarder:
oh don't worry. they will figure it out
09:26:51
DataHoarder:
those projects are worse
09:27:21
DataHoarder:
the ones that try to pass it off as hidden
09:28:19
DataHoarder:
(oh yeah be sure to enable subtitles with those videos, or you won't see anything. the entire video/animation is subtitles)
09:28:49
DataHoarder:
don't make the player too big or it'll die due to lack of current CPU power
09:28:58
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Ok in Microsoft Word, you write the word 'Amsterdam' often so it figures this out and starts auto-filling it for you after you type 'Am'. You have just used AI. Now imagine coding where code blocks of 200+ characters can be very common. And you're saying coders should never use this type of thing to speed up their [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/-cDwveEKSERXS0JD ]
09:29:48
DataHoarder:
libass still is waiting on https://github.com/libass/libass/pull/793 / https://github.com/libass/libass/pull/636 (which has a few of my samples as stress tests :P)
09:30:42
BlueyHealer:
Just word autocomplete is granular enough so it's not AS comparable, but even then I turn autocorrect off because it just corrects words that exist but are just not in the dictionary. Even common words that are just slightly specialized.
09:31:00
BlueyHealer:
Also Libreoffice doesn't shove LLMs into your face like MS Office does
09:31:15
DataHoarder:
ducking autoincomplete
09:31:17
DataHoarder:
^
09:31:19
DataHoarder:
don't you know BlueyHealer it's not MS Office
09:31:21
DataHoarder:
it's Copilot 365
09:31:46
BlueyHealer:
oh my bad
09:31:51
DataHoarder:
to open anything you need to ask copilot to open it for you
09:31:53
DataHoarder:
Microsoft 365 Copilot
09:32:15
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Microsoft Word is a very, very simple version of Visual Studio Code. You can't even begin to imagine all the complex shit that does with text. And all that ways it helps programmers to auto-fill shit. My point was you're saying they should not use auto-fill. Why? What the fuck is wrong with it?
09:32:51
DataHoarder:
> One place for your AI and productivity tools. Explore how the Microsoft 365 Copilot app helps you search, chat*, create, and stay in the flow.
09:32:53
DataHoarder:
> Also: Experience classic Office apps enhanced with AI, remastered
09:33:23
DataHoarder:
10:08:05 <DataHoarder> I have one usage for local auto complete. and that's for it to complete the if err != nil { return nil, fmt.Errorf("<......>: %w", err) } calls in go :D
09:33:54
DataHoarder:
in-line autocomplete with small context windows to review are great, specially if local
09:34:56
BlueyHealer:
Because a lot of people insist on using autofill on more than just simple and predictable snippets
09:35:18
DataHoarder:
"Did you know? The Microsoft Office app is now Microsoft 365 Copilot. Your favorite apps are still here. You can find your favorite apps—like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and more—under the Microsoft 365 Copilot web Chat app.
09:35:37
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: so? what is the problem? i think it's just 'AI is bad, that's why' you just are anti-AI.
09:36:16
DataHoarder:
BlueyHealer: holy shit https://irc.gammaspectra.live/41419fe6af146ebe/image.png it does not even list Office under features nor under Products
09:36:19
DataHoarder:
> you just are anti-AI.
09:36:24
DataHoarder:
fucking based
09:36:51
DataHoarder:
*ducking
09:37:03
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
Trump putting AI and Crypto together was weird and didn't make sense. But they are both world changing technologies with a lot of ignorant haters. In that way, he got it exactly right.
09:37:50
DataHoarder:
watch romantic.swf :P
09:37:52
DataHoarder:
bring back the days of Flash animations being the media you consume
09:40:15
DataHoarder:
in the end feel free to use AI stuff, but if you attempt to do it with stuff around cryptography or field specific, specially monero, you will either get it wrong or outright harm users
09:40:17
DataHoarder:
if not all at once
09:43:19
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: by this you presumably mean 'vibecoding your entire app and not understanding the code' etc and you're right. but this is a broad brush and applies all the way to someone autofilling their rust functions. i see no reason such a person is going to harm users.
09:44:23
DataHoarder:
as a specific context of rust, you could autofill stuff that leaves private keys in the stack to be recovered in memory after computations
09:44:36
DataHoarder:
or introduce side channels
09:45:13
DataHoarder:
> if you attempt to do it with stuff around cryptography or field specific, specially monero, you will either get it wrong or outright harm users
09:45:14
DataHoarder:
if you are doing anything that requires care, the AI will not do so
09:45:24
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
by using auto-fill to template common code?
09:45:40
DataHoarder:
common field specific cryptography code for monero?
09:46:09
DataHoarder:
no, it won't be able to, anything that is not general like a react app it fails miserably
09:46:11
DataHoarder:
same for assembly
09:46:36
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i'm just saying there are safe ways it can be used. vibecoding the app while not being able to code, obviously bad. blanket no AI rule?
09:46:41
DataHoarder:
as a rule of thumb, make less from more (review, or aggregate values, get specific lookups that can be verified)
09:46:53
DataHoarder:
not more from less. which vibecoding usually is
09:47:17
DataHoarder:
> blanket no AI rule?
09:47:18
DataHoarder:
if you are making context wider than what you can review instantly with one pass, it'll end up failing yep
09:47:45
DataHoarder:
again, with > 10:46:08 <DataHoarder> > if you attempt to do it with stuff around cryptography or field specific, specially monero, you will either get it wrong or outright harm users
09:47:46
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
ya well i dont really agree but this is the coding discussion i miss instead of arguing over clouds with non-coders.
09:49:06
BlueyHealer:
Also I feel like "half-truth" is going to be an issue with bigger snippets. You glance through, see it's doing *some* things right and the structure feels solid, and you're MORE likely to miss the big glaring error it made.
09:49:54
BlueyHealer:
DataHoarder | > blanket no AI rule? <- With how big of a flood AI submissions made, that makes more sense than trying to find a needle in a haystack.
09:52:17
DataHoarder:
glowingexplorer: do you have field specific knowledge on cryptography/monero?
09:52:53
DataHoarder:
https://github.com/monero-oxide/monero-oxide/blob/main/monero-oxide/ringct/bulletproofs/src/plus/aggregate_range_proof.rs
09:52:55
DataHoarder:
example
09:53:13
DataHoarder:
a single misplaced offset or line leaks your stuff
09:57:21
DataHoarder:
my perspective is unchanged as I already had to answer for several privacy incidents we had to report to european authorities, and every single time it was fucking AI
09:58:05
DataHoarder:
not my code, not my service, but I swooped in to cleanup and person who ""wrote"" that literally had no idea. we just threw away the system
09:58:33
orly_owl:
./nuke.sh
09:58:35
DataHoarder:
it was faster, cheaper to implement to redo from scratch, and no AI
09:58:55
DataHoarder:
or the classic "your API is secured on the client side" that AI loves to do over and over again
09:59:07
DataHoarder:
sure not all. but it's a trend that always pops up
10:00:23
BlueyHealer:
"your API is secured on the client side" that AI loves to do over and over again <- LOL really?
10:00:39
DataHoarder:
or hardcode an API token
10:00:47
DataHoarder:
which ofc. allows reading all user stuff
10:01:08
DataHoarder:
or rm -rf your computer
10:01:10
DataHoarder:
specially in "agentic" setups
10:01:25
DataHoarder:
curl http://script | sudo bash -c -
10:01:42
DataHoarder:
as a service :P
10:04:09
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i wouldn't feel comfortable vibe coding it and release a product, if that answers your question. not strong knowledge. > <DataHoarder> glowingexplorer: do you have field specific knowledge on cryptography/monero?
10:04:21
DataHoarder:
so yes. my view is pessimistic cause every chance I have given it has been outright harmful, and any usage from peers ended up as incidents down the line
11:28:19
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@glowingexplorer:matrix.org has zero public projects?
11:28:45
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
proprietary or otherwise
11:30:01
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
So this is just defending some personal heavily slopped project that one hopes to not be ridiculed for at some point in the future?
12:01:05
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: a public project is not the only viable project.
12:02:04
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
it certainly limits what you can build but if you begin with that constraint, you'll find all sorts of options
12:05:48
plowsof:
is the code public yet glowingexplorer, we've been waiting years
12:08:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: you guys are really not understanding me: i refuse to tie my business success and prospects to THIS VERY BULLSHIT. there will be nothing public, ever. not code, not a product, not a business, not anything. not even a description of what i'm doing. i dont need or want or care about your opinion on any of it.
12:08:29
plowsof:
LMAO
12:10:44
plowsof:
could you share the readme?
12:11:13
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: why the fuck would i need a readme when i'm the only one who will ever see anything
12:11:42
plowsof:
how many stars does it have? 😂
12:11:44
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
oh well there are actually are code readme's and the answer is no
12:12:24
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
plowsof: lol @ the idea of putting code on github.
12:13:54
plowsof:
so less than the 900 starred slop, sad
12:16:09
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
i know you're trolling but you're doing a great job of demonstrating what i'm not doing anything public. some people can diplomatically handle idiots like you. i cannot. i call you an idiot. and then you hate me for the rest of your life and go around bashing me and what i built anytime you see it. 100 of you can sink anything in crypto.
12:19:55
plowsof:
at least you know im trolling. is the script for this fan fiction open source?
13:47:00
plowsof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LinuxUncensored/comments/1qr07by/ffmpeg_is_not_happy_with_ai_generated_patches/
13:48:06
Cindy:
"const named 8 with value 8"
13:48:10
Cindy:
is this for real
13:49:28
plowsof:
Good catch! would you like me to use "eight" instead
13:49:59
Cindy:
this guy fucking rebased and force-pushed
13:50:11
Cindy:
so i can't find the commit where he defined a const named 8 with value 8
13:50:56
Cindy:
isn't that amazing
13:51:42
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Cindy: You can on github
13:51:54
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Using web, click the "compare" button beside the force push
13:52:19
Cindy:
this is on forgejo
13:55:41
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Also had compare button
13:55:45
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/compare/816ff702fac0f92a2f6810bb14815cb3390c6e1d..7d950339eadaac88e79f90939f36f4dd4dd15f61#diff-0c884b1b418d820a74cd9223ed20c05ccaf8614d
13:55:58
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Is this the line?
13:56:01
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
{ "8", "8x8 blocks", 0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = 8}, 0, 0, FLAGS, .unit = "mb_size" },
13:57:32
Cindy:
definitely looks like a const named 8 defined as 8
17:39:04
nioc:
I have quickly scanned the backlog and have one thing to say
17:39:08
nioc:
SLOP
17:55:06
plowsof:
👍
19:14:44
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
TIL a syntax error is slop, and every programmer in history writes slop all day
19:17:13
plowsof:
👍
19:18:22
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
we need a a word. for dumbass non-programmers trying to look smart criticizing code as some form of AI generated. they can be wrong or accidentally right, the accuracy isn't what matters. just the act of doing it without knowing what the fuck they are talking about
19:27:54
nioc:
now I feel like using punch cards again
20:07:17
plowsof:
I stapled 2 pieces of paper together the other day, i will make a ccs
20:07:39
321bob321:
vintage
20:43:06
321bob321:
https://blog.cloudflare.com/serverless-matrix-homeserver-workers/ monero.social when ?
20:44:45
Cindy:
thats just an AI slop post
20:48:07
321bob321:
https://selfh.st/weekly/2026-01-30/
20:48:07
321bob321:
look at all the ai assist projects now
20:56:21
DataHoarder:
https://tech.lgbt/@JadedBlueEyes/115967791152135761
20:56:34
DataHoarder:
todo todo todo
21:00:04
gan:skhron.org:
Recommend to read https://nexy.blog/2026/01/28/cf-matrix-workers/ as well
21:00:43
DataHoarder:
it's like the "AI Browser"
21:00:48
DataHoarder:
where ... it built nothing
21:11:45
Cindy:
"as you can run a Matrix server on almost anything"
21:11:58
Cindy:
anything with 100 TB attached
21:12:29
321bob321:
i know somene who ran one on phone
21:15:56
Cindy:
doesn't matrix consume so much space?
21:16:01
ravfx:xmr.mx:
You can do monthly purge (remote content, chat and media)
21:16:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
It's what I do
21:16:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
when I purge, everything older than a month go, remote only.
21:16:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
When the matrix don't bug then it work just fine even to fetch older content (if it's not on my server, it get it from the federation)
21:18:23
ravfx:xmr.mx:
right now i'm at 61GB and I'm federate big rooms and been running since about 3 years or something
21:18:31
gan:skhron.org:
Cindy: Nope, that depends
21:18:54
ravfx:xmr.mx:
But when I do the vacuum thing, it does require like the double of the space (for db) for the moment it vac
21:19:07
DataHoarder:
Cindy: depends how much you are joining, too
21:19:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yeah, the more room you connect to the more it keep local
21:19:39
gan:skhron.org:
I'm in 137 rooms, and my server barely uses any storage
21:19:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
But I can't migrate from synapse soooo
21:20:08
gan:skhron.org:
Understandable
21:25:21
BlueyHealer:
I just reinstall the server to free up space. XMPP does not have that.
21:25:39
BlueyHealer:
61 GB? I don't even have half of that IN TOTAL!
21:25:52
Cindy:
XMPP supremacy
21:26:06
BlueyHealer:
gan, how do you do that? And how much is "barely"?
21:26:35
ravfx:xmr.mx:
if I look at my backup i'm only at 46GB hmmm
21:26:45
ravfx:xmr.mx:
the server probably have extra crust 😂
21:26:59
BlueyHealer:
ravfx, but if you just purge indiscriminately, that does remove the profile pictures too, no?
21:27:14
ravfx:xmr.mx:
(backup = /var/lib/synapse + /etc/synapse + postgresql replication shenanigans)
21:27:48
ravfx:xmr.mx:
BlueyHealer: It remove only remote content that is older than a month.
21:27:48
ravfx:xmr.mx:
If your client need said content, it get it from the federation
21:27:53
ravfx:xmr.mx:
and get back in my server
21:27:59
ravfx:xmr.mx:
and deleted again after a month
21:28:04
BlueyHealer:
Ah!
21:28:14
Cindy:
does synapse have like a file size limit
21:28:23
Cindy:
before it's like "nah, i'm not downloading"
21:28:29
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I don't think so, it actually inflate real fast lol
21:28:43
Cindy:
well great
21:28:48
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, it doesn't seem to download videos at least
21:28:50
Cindy:
all i need to do is make my own matrix server or fork an existing one
21:29:00
Cindy:
and trick other servers to download a file that looks small
21:29:01
Cindy:
but never ends
21:29:06
gan:skhron.org:
BlueyHealer: Avoidable, but mostly that's true, currently there's some work being put to avoid that https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/3911
21:29:10
BlueyHealer:
I used to use Conduit but it broke encryption, which Synapse never did.
21:29:27
gan:skhron.org:
BlueyHealer: interesting, never had that issue
21:29:38
Cindy:
>server breaks client-side encryption
21:29:43
Cindy:
this sounds dumb
21:30:13
gan:skhron.org:
it doesn't, because the server is the one exchanging the keys
21:30:18
BlueyHealer:
Yeah
21:30:53
gan:skhron.org:
To note, some clients have poor crypto implementation like nheko and fluffychat
21:30:55
BlueyHealer:
Everything just stays undecryptable at times.
21:30:57
Cindy:
OMEMO, in the other hand, is designed for minimal server intervention
21:31:14
Cindy:
they use that as a talking point in their site i think
21:31:23
BlueyHealer:
ravfx, so what are the commands you run or the config options?
21:31:41
BlueyHealer:
For the remote-only deletion
21:32:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
wait a sec
21:32:28
Cindy:
"No changes were required on our server infrastructure. - A lazy System Administrator"
21:32:31
Cindy:
looooool
21:35:05
Cindy:
matrix is like "sorry guys, we have to change our servers to support E2E encryption"
21:35:12
ravfx:xmr.mx:
if I attach a .sh file here, can use people get it?
21:35:20
ravfx:xmr.mx:
irc people**
21:35:23
Cindy:
yes
21:35:36
BlueyHealer:
Ah, so it is a command
21:35:52
BlueyHealer:
Do you cron it or just run whenever it gets full?
21:35:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/PTeEYpAvfzGcVmFTEVADcdBj.sh (purgotron.sh)
21:36:10
ravfx:xmr.mx:
That is only part of it
21:36:23
Cindy:
i find matrix to be hilarious
21:36:41
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I did not "fully" automate the rest.
21:36:41
ravfx:xmr.mx:
But then you have to use synapse compressor rust things to compress each rooms states
21:36:49
Cindy:
how every part of it manages to be horribly designed in every conceivable way
21:36:58
ravfx:xmr.mx:
then once your done, you reindex and vacuum the synapse db
21:37:53
ravfx:xmr.mx:
wait, the file is borked lol, pebcak occured
21:38:17
BlueyHealer:
That's why I preferred reinstalling XS
21:38:18
BlueyHealer:
XD
21:38:21
ravfx:xmr.mx:
ignore line 1 to 10, it's the bottom of the file (I copied the whole terminal instead of the file.....
21:38:44
BlueyHealer:
Also expected it to be sql commands rather than post requests
21:39:02
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Well, you have 3 sql commands actually in the second phases
21:39:37
ravfx:xmr.mx:
SELECT rss.name, s.room_id, COUNT(s.room_id)
21:39:37
ravfx:xmr.mx:
FROM state_groups_state s
21:39:37
ravfx:xmr.mx:
LEFT JOIN room_stats_state rss USING (room_id)
21:39:37
ravfx:xmr.mx:
GROUP BY s.room_id, rss.name
21:39:38
ravfx:xmr.mx:
ORDER BY COUNT(s.room_id) DESC;
21:39:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
You can do some bash shenanigans to only get the id numbers
21:40:10
Cindy:
the only thing i like about matrix is its logo
21:40:14
Cindy:
adult swim ass logo
21:40:33
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then you loop (with proper db user/db and the last parameter is room id
21:40:33
ravfx:xmr.mx:
synapse_compress_state -p "user=xxxxxxxxxxx dbname=synapse host=/var/run/postgresql" -g -c -r "!pDooMjIwhpZDgwJnzW:xmr.mx"
21:41:04
ravfx:xmr.mx:
ID you get from the query I just posted
21:41:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
once that's donw, you shutdown synapse
21:41:44
ravfx:xmr.mx:
and run
21:41:44
ravfx:xmr.mx:
REINDEX (VERBOSE) DATABASE synapse;
21:41:45
BlueyHealer:
Thanks! I think I'll stick with reinstalls because it's easy but would love to understand the "proper" way.
21:41:56
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then run
21:41:56
ravfx:xmr.mx:
VACUUM FULL VERBOSE;
21:42:09
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then start synapse
21:43:40
ravfx:xmr.mx:
The script delete the stuff older than 30 days (delete old dead rooms(DMs), delete old media and old chat)
21:44:01
ravfx:xmr.mx:
The synapse_compress_state do just that (it's probably the shit that use most of the space
21:44:37
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, that I saw
21:44:39
ravfx:xmr.mx:
and the last vacuum command get the space back from the db because the states are compressed
21:44:54
ravfx:xmr.mx:
postgresql don't give the space back automatically...
21:45:28
321bob321:
Can you add timescaledb to it
21:45:45
321bob321:
I use it for zabbix to compress
21:46:34
ravfx:xmr.mx:
no idea, would have to look what's that
21:48:04
321bob321:
https://www.slingacademy.com/article/installing-and-configuring-timescaledb-with-postgresql/
21:50:21
321bob321:
What does matrix store in postgres ?
21:51:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@321bob321: everything but the media
21:51:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
afaik
21:55:04
321bob321:
Everything but the kitchen sink
22:02:40
gan:skhron.org:
@321bob321: States and events
22:03:29
gan:skhron.org:
the events could be safely omitted, states cannot (well, they can be, but that's beside the point, and nobody implemented that yet)