00:29:37
webwipe:matrix.org:
https://x.com/WebWipeMeDown/status/2010096076070789209
00:29:37
webwipe:matrix.org:
Monero meetup in Charlotte, NC this Friday
00:29:38
webwipe:matrix.org:
January 16th
00:31:14
webwipe:matrix.org:
@webwipe:matrix.org: Venue: Tip Top Daily Market
00:31:14
webwipe:matrix.org:
Friday January 16th
00:31:14
webwipe:matrix.org:
6-9 pm
00:31:14
webwipe:matrix.org:
2902 THE PLAZA, CHARLOTTE, NC 28205[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7P3an9sKYVJrNXl4 ]
00:31:41
remake6316:matrix.org:
yo! which options leaves behind less metadata
00:31:42
remake6316:matrix.org:
1. Purchase XMR directly from a CEX
00:31:42
remake6316:matrix.org:
2. Purchase LTC directly from a CEX and swap to XMR using Trocador
00:33:18
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Both leave metadata, but on trocador its splitted with two different data broker, except if the service you choose on trocador use thebsame CEX as the one you got the ltc, in that vase it make no difference +except that they know you tried to fuzz by using a swapper)
00:33:33
plowsof:
the one with less steps so 1 D:
00:33:46
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Sorry for the typos, using a phone right now
00:34:34
remake6316:matrix.org:
all good thanks for the response. so 1) leaves behind less metadata, okay.
00:34:34
remake6316:matrix.org:
can chain analysis determine that when you send LTC to a swap service, that the swap was for XMR?
00:35:23
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@remake6316:matrix.org: If the swap provider use the se CEX then the one you got the LTC, then yes
00:35:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Same***
00:36:00
Cindy:
after you buy from the CEX, send immediately to a non-custodial wallet
00:36:07
Cindy:
(aka. wallet with keys on your computer)
00:36:29
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yeah, and churn eet
00:36:58
ravfx:xmr.mx:
If you dont own the keys, you dont own the crypto
00:37:03
Cindy:
many people make the mistake of leaving the money in the CEX
00:37:09
Cindy:
and then when their account gets frozen
00:37:15
Cindy:
that shit is GONE
00:37:32
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yep, even if its 2025... Threat the cex as a bank accout, so stupide
00:38:28
remake6316:matrix.org:
so it actually depends on the swap service if chain analysis can determine if your LTC was swapped for XMR? that doesn't make sense to me..
00:38:56
remake6316:matrix.org:
cos whether or not the XMR you get comes from a CEX, on chain it will look the same
00:39:11
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Your fine as long as the xmr endup in your wallet
00:39:16
Cindy:
it depends on if they got access to off-chain data
00:39:32
remake6316:matrix.org:
yeah, but I mean purely from public on chain data
00:39:36
ravfx:xmr.mx:
To be double sure send the xmr to yourself (one output at at time)
00:40:40
remake6316:matrix.org:
how do y'all acquire your XMR? anyone DEX chads here?
00:40:55
remake6316:matrix.org:
or cash to mail gigachads?
00:41:04
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I just get paid for coding service
00:41:17
remake6316:matrix.org:
that's dope
00:41:26
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Buy I got enough that I just decided to retire
00:42:26
remake6316:matrix.org:
did they list the job as paid in XMR or did you arrange that afterwards. if the latter, was it hard to convince the payer to do monero?
00:43:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Just arrange it.
00:43:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Get them code preview... Then they like and want your code...
00:43:07
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then you tell then... No xmr... No code :)
00:43:39
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then they send you xmr even if you dont make a line of code in two month...
00:44:04
Cindy:
i wish i could retire on XMR
00:44:45
remake6316:matrix.org:
I wish I could GET xmr without KYC
00:45:03
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then take "vacation" for a month, and dont show up after a month becuase you dont care
00:45:18
remake6316:matrix.org:
im pretty computer literate but Haveno and Bisq looked complex af
00:45:30
remake6316:matrix.org:
keen to see what serai brings
00:45:43
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Haveno is not hard to use
00:46:00
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Its like localbitcorns or localmonero
00:46:19
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Before they got executed by ussa or something
00:46:29
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Generic p2p transaction
00:46:50
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Literally, the same as binance p2p but decentralized
00:47:00
ravfx:xmr.mx:
"Decentralized"
00:52:27
remake6316:matrix.org:
localmonero seemed to be used by loads of people and much simpler
00:52:51
remake6316:matrix.org:
i don't really hear of anyone using haveno, i hear of people saying you can use it for non-kyc p2p tx's, but not of people actually using it
00:52:57
remake6316:matrix.org:
not a single listing in my country either
00:53:20
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Well, it was a web page and a nice app but of course... It was located in a ussa protectorate and they did not ask for Kidnap Your Customer™ so rhey got offed
00:53:36
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Off-ed**
00:53:45
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Like localbitcorns
01:04:32
nioc:
remake6316 for haveno you can try making an ad if there are no ads
01:04:37
nioc:
might work
02:20:49
kriek:matrix.org:
@remake6316:matrix.org: I used it to buy my monero ehehe
03:01:55
remake6316:matrix.org:
@kriek:matrix.org: that's cool to hear!
11:18:52
ripening:unredacted.org:
If I need to interact with DEFI on ERC20, what do you think about anonymizing tokens via railgun?
11:21:08
Cindy_:
didn't you say this before
11:21:47
321bob321:
Echo
11:22:47
milas900:matrix.org:
A transaction input has less than 6 transactions please try again later what’s this error on cake wallet ?
11:23:38
milas900:matrix.org:
It opens transactions In history and ask me to pay but refuse to pay from cake wallet now it’s all stuck
11:38:01
yokoama:matrix.org:
@milas900:matrix.org: contact their support
11:38:47
yokoama:matrix.org:
seems like you are lost in translation
13:52:28
Cindy_:
i can see that monero-oxide is really meant for expert users (who understand most of the technical aspects behind monero)
13:53:14
Cindy_:
like for example, getting the amount from a received output isn't as easy as just calling .amount() on a WalletOutput. you have to get the Pedersen commitment from the WalletOutput and then get the amount from there
14:01:02
boog900:
tbf you could add a function that returns the amount from a WalletOutput, I don't really see the value as currently its just .commitment().amount.
14:01:02
boog900:
The ecosystem is missing a high level wallet lib that abstracts all of monero's complexity away, this lib can be built on top of monero-oxide.
14:01:33
Cindy_:
yeah i could just add stuff myself
14:14:03
lch361:lch361.net:
Hi everyone!
14:14:03
lch361:lch361.net:
Is there any way to run a private Monero node with RAM < 4 GB? The official guide (https://docs.getmonero.org/running-node/monerod-systemd/#monerod-config) just assumes 4 GB, but never specifies whether this limit is for private or public node.
14:14:03
lch361:lch361.net:
I just want to have a constantly running, and thus, always synchronized node
14:17:22
yurimyname:matrix.org:
@lch361:lch361.net: I ran one with 2gb (not recommended), it's possible but not a fun time
14:18:54
Cindy_:
at some point, you'll probably run into problems with the amount of RAM RandomX allocates
14:20:38
yurimyname:matrix.org:
True ✅️
14:20:44
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Is nothing else running on the system?
14:21:03
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Then 4gb should be fine if blocks remain small
14:21:04
Cindy_:
i don't know if monero runs RandomX light mode
14:21:08
yurimyname:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ofrn dm me
14:21:14
Cindy_:
cuz the full RandomX mode uses 2 GB of RAM
14:21:19
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Bro
14:21:23
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
1 sec
14:23:10
DataHoarder:
Cindy_: yeah, I made a few helpers for that reason to scan outputs on my wallet stuff, it handles that + tx keys + tx proof scanning
14:23:34
Cindy_:
i dunno who's this Pedersen guy
14:23:40
Cindy_:
but he sounds cool
14:23:40
DataHoarder:
the complexity is that it gives two different scan types, one for pre-carrot states and one for post-carrot
14:58:58
milas900:matrix.org:
Hello
14:59:00
milas900:matrix.org:
Please help me
14:59:01
milas900:matrix.org:
I’m completely confused
14:59:18
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: About?
14:59:44
milas900:matrix.org:
I did a transfer on cakewallet
14:59:54
milas900:matrix.org:
To exchange ltc to Xmr
15:00:12
milas900:matrix.org:
The balance totally disappears and in history it says I just transferred ltc
15:00:24
milas900:matrix.org:
But I didn’t transfer ltc I exchanged to xmr
15:01:08
milas900:matrix.org:
I did it one hour ago
15:01:27
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: No, you DID transfer LTC, that's how an exchange works. You send your LTC to the exchange wallet, they do their thing, then send XMR back in exchange. It can take from a few minutes to hours to happen.
15:02:14
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
You can check in the transactions list and should be able to see a link to the exchanges website and see the status of the transaction.
15:02:19
milas900:matrix.org:
So technically I need to wait until I receive ?
15:02:33
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: You got it. Or a refund happens
15:02:35
milas900:matrix.org:
There is 12 confirmations
15:03:02
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: That has to work both LTC -> Exchange -> XMR
15:03:20
milas900:matrix.org:
Ok so it doesn’t say anything pending in my xmr wallet
15:03:28
milas900:matrix.org:
And it’s 50 mins ago the transaction is done
15:04:31
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Have you checked the status of the swap transaction? I'm not talking about the blockchain confirmations, I'm talking about the status of the swap on the exchange website.
15:04:48
milas900:matrix.org:
It says sending it doesn’t say swap
15:05:02
milas900:matrix.org:
Because I did multiple times
15:05:13
milas900:matrix.org:
In the previous time there was swap thing but it’s expired
15:05:25
milas900:matrix.org:
When I tried again it’s just sending transaction no swap transaction
15:05:45
milas900:matrix.org:
I did like three times swap and there was error each time
15:05:58
milas900:matrix.org:
And then I did again and transaction happened but no swap in history just sending
15:06:05
milas900:matrix.org:
I choose to send from cake wallet tho
15:06:13
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
You could send a screenshot of what you're seeing - just delete everything sensitive / PII
15:06:33
milas900:matrix.org:
Ok guys
15:06:37
milas900:matrix.org:
I contacted support
15:06:53
milas900:matrix.org:
They figure it out
15:07:05
milas900:matrix.org:
And the balance now of swap moved to exchanging
15:07:17
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: Cake Wallet support is very good
15:07:18
milas900:matrix.org:
Yes they are awesome
15:07:30
milas900:matrix.org:
I can’t understand are they considered dex or cex?
15:07:36
milas900:matrix.org:
Or cex without kyc !?
15:08:39
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@milas900:matrix.org: Neither. All they do is make an API call and the app does the wallet work.
15:09:03
milas900:matrix.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: But centralized no !?
15:09:10
milas900:matrix.org:
Like you can sanction it if u want
15:09:53
milas900:matrix.org:
If xmr is delisted how they get to find exchange which lists xmr
15:09:56
milas900:matrix.org:
What’s their business model
15:10:02
alem:
the wallet is just a software, they use an external provider to swap
15:10:18
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
It uses a panel of DEXs, how they decide which one I'm not sure (probably a balance of their commission and the exchange rate you get?)
15:10:42
milas900:matrix.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: No they swap with centralized exchange I guess
15:10:49
milas900:matrix.org:
No ?
15:10:57
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Yes. Centralized
15:11:49
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Some swappers have their own liquidity, some fwd the coins to mexc, kucoin, and kraken
15:18:24
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: I think cake just picks whatever has the best rate at the time(you can enable and disable some.of the providers since some of em might randomly ask for KYC and such if they want at whatever point of the swap)
15:19:09
Cindy:
i feel bad for europeans
15:19:21
Cindy:
they won't have any swappers that accept XMR
15:19:24
Cindy:
unless it's DEX
15:20:30
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Criminals
15:20:36
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Cindy: I mean, I'm not European but I'm sure they can always use Trocador through Tor if they are trying to hide getting xmr, I've never had issues with them, I've only used that and sometimes retoswap
15:21:07
Cindy:
johnjenkinss: EU is planning to ban XMR by 2027
15:21:16
Cindy:
or at least, the deadline is
15:21:37
Cindy:
there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU
15:21:43
btcdwed:
holding xmr in a wallet could be a grey area
15:22:03
btcdwed:
they will not ban holding xmr in a wallet
15:22:06
btcdwed:
but the rest will be banned :P
15:22:23
Cindy:
no, but they're pessuring services into not accepting XMR
15:22:32
btcdwed:
true
15:22:54
Cindy:
kraken already delisted XMR for EU users
15:22:58
Cindy:
because of the pressure
15:23:02
DataHoarder:
16:21:47 <Cindy> johnjenkinss: EU is planning to ban XMR by 2027
15:23:02
DataHoarder:
private ownership and exchanging p2p IS allowed
15:23:22
btcdwed:
where did you get that info from? p2p i mean...
15:23:24
DataHoarder:
holding is not a grey area, it's still allowed per se
15:23:25
Cindy:
DataHoarder: yes, but they're be pressuring companies and services into not accepting them
15:23:33
Cindy:
they'll be*
15:23:36
DataHoarder:
btcdwed: it only disallows non-private entities
15:23:40
btcdwed:
DataHoarder i say grea area, cause i think they will ban that too :D
15:23:47
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
yeah but the US doesn't list XMR either, and I know of plenty of friends, including me, always buying > <Cindy> kraken already delisted XMR for EU users
15:23:58
DataHoarder:
16:24:05 <Cindy> DataHoarder: yes, but they're be pressuring companies and services into not accepting them
15:23:58
DataHoarder:
companies and services won't be able to accept them, that's the ban :)
15:24:04
Cindy:
yes
15:24:05
btcdwed:
kraken US allows buying xmr i think
15:24:12
Cindy:
that's what i was referring to
15:24:19
Cindy:
also kraken US does allow XMR
15:24:19
btcdwed:
i rekt my kraken acc riight before re-verifying
15:24:21
btcdwed:
sad day
15:24:25
Cindy:
it's only the EU branch that doesn't
15:24:32
btcdwed:
EU is stupid af
15:24:42
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
yeah kraken I believe lists it > <btcdwed> kraken US allows buying xmr i think
15:25:02
Cindy:
they already wiped out their XMR liquidity for EU users
15:25:02
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Never mind. > <Cindy> there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU
15:25:05
btcdwed:
its still listed on cmc too
15:25:11
Cindy:
converting like all of them into BTC
15:25:19
btcdwed:
LTC is the way
15:26:00
Cindy:
https://support.kraken.com/articles/support-for-monero-xmr-in-europe
15:26:28
btcdwed:
lol nice
15:26:35
Cindy:
oh, later they delisted XMR for canadians
15:26:36
Cindy:
https://support.kraken.com/articles/notice-of-delisting-xmr-canada
15:26:46
btcdwed:
would you rather auto-convert to ZEC?
15:26:47
btcdwed:
:D
15:27:03
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
DataHoarder: So let's say for example, EU users couldn't get mullvad with XMR anymore? and also, how would they know the XMR transaction was done by a EU person if , by the nature of XMR and if used right, you can't even tell who did the transactions? just a thought, I'm no expert in this field
15:27:11
liberavento:
I buy xmr on Kraken, no problem at all
15:27:17
Cindy:
liberavento: what country are you in
15:27:20
DataHoarder:
they don't care about the private person
15:27:33
DataHoarder:
Mullvad is in EU, so they'd be prohibited from receiving *any*
15:27:36
DataHoarder:
not just from EU
15:27:41
Cindy:
^
15:28:06
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
DataHoarder: Hmmmm, wonder how'd they react to that, haven't seen any blogs posts on it
15:28:16
nioc:
Mullvad still accepts montero
15:28:16
DataHoarder:
they already have alternate ways
15:28:19
liberavento:
A country with no restrictions
15:28:26
DataHoarder:
like have entity elsewhere resell via XMR, coupons
15:28:40
Cindy:
liberavento: if you're not in the EU or canada, then obviously there'd be no problem
15:28:49
liberavento:
So far...
15:29:28
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
DataHoarder: yeah but I mean if the ban is for 2027, of course it still works now
15:29:32
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: They can't, that's why the EU (and others) are leaning on it.
15:29:36
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
since it isnt put into law yet
15:29:38
liberavento:
using cake 🎂 wallet, Cupcake opto
15:29:46
DataHoarder:
yes, ofc it works now
15:29:48
liberavento:
*option
15:29:49
Cindy:
the deadline is 2027
15:30:07
Cindy:
before the law takes effect
15:30:15
Cindy:
it's a grace period before they take shit seriously
15:30:54
Cindy:
also in the same EU legislation, they also prohibited anonymous crowdfunding (or crowdfunding via anonymous cryptocurrencies like XMR) i think
15:31:19
liberavento:
it's a pity
15:31:37
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
To be fair, it's all of this that makes me want XMR more
15:31:41
sech1:
EU won't exist much long past 2027 anyway
15:31:49
gingeropolous:
lulz
15:32:02
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: So, just a theory, if someone wants to make a private purchase, they could use Trocador to exchange to XMR, move to a new wallet(idk I keep hearing about churning, not sure if it even matters), then swap back to BTC the amount you need for a purchase, making the new BTC wallet unknown to who owns it unless you use BTC for something that requires your identity
15:32:40
gingeropolous:
u mean a private purchase with bitcorn?
15:32:45
Cindy:
DataHoarder: resellers could be a good loophole
15:32:50
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Yep. As long as you follow best practice.
15:32:58
DataHoarder:
it's already done for other entities and services
15:33:06
liberavento:
xmr XMR is becoming a scarce and valuable
15:33:28
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
gingeropolous: if you buy with BTC that has no identity, and the service you're getting also doesn't require your identity whatsoever, it is indeed a private transaction
15:33:38
Cindy:
i'm betting mullvad will let entities bulk-buy discounts
15:33:42
Cindy:
i mean gift cards*
15:33:45
Cindy:
to resell for XMR
15:34:08
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Cindy: Big brain move if they do that lmao
15:34:18
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Yes, BTC privacy is only really broken by on / off ramps. But you need to know what you're doing and the risks to stay private, it doesn't happen by accident. Whereas Monero, it's built in - as long as you don't do anything silly.
15:34:22
BlueyHealer:
Cindy | there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU <- The bigger worry is if they KYC all crypto payments because otherwise Trocador+LTC is the way lol
15:34:25
Cindy:
bulk-buy giftcards at a discount
15:34:52
BlueyHealer:
how would they know the XMR transaction was done by a EU person if <- I assumed it was not for EU users, but for EU companies.
15:35:01
gingeropolous:
on / off ramps and the entities you interact with and your output management
15:35:29
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: the law applies to companies applying XMR, yes
15:36:03
BlueyHealer:
Yes, BTC privacy is only really broken by on / off ramps. <- Eh, not really. I think there may be cases when how the funds move also tells at least something.
15:36:15
Cindy:
you can own it. hell, you could send it between each other
15:36:19
BlueyHealer:
Like, reminds me of how DNMs' wallets were investigated
15:36:27
Cindy:
but if you wanna establish a company and accept XMR, the EU will breath down your neck
15:36:45
lol_dump_it:matrix.org:
wdym monero is pumping? lets start a dump it campaign "it gonna be banned and delisted and illegal to use the monero lol"
15:36:48
lol_dump_it:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/HZQpUeUGUemGAJqATQZTLGqF.png (image.png)
15:37:05
liberavento:
that's such a sad reality
15:37:16
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
BlueyHealer: oh yeah for sure, like if you send $400 ltc to swap for xmr, then you swap $400 xmr to BTC, there's enough right there to look at you I'm sure
15:37:37
BlueyHealer:
yeah like that
15:37:55
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@lol_dump_it:matrix.org: NAH PUMP ME BABY
15:37:57
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
okay pause
15:38:01
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: Being honest with ourselves, XMR will never be mainstream. The authorities will never allow us to have privacy. The corrupt politicians and elite have their methods, the peasants can't have one of their own.
15:38:18
lch361:lch361.net:
@yurimyname:matrix.org: Thanks for the answer!
15:38:18
lch361:lch361.net:
Then I guess I'll host Monero node in the future, because currently can't afford more RAM on server. It's got exactly 4 GB, but has other services running
15:38:39
Cindy:
monero will be as mainstream as tor
15:38:42
BlueyHealer:
I'm not sure I want it to be outright mainstream anyway - it has its niche, and it fits the niche like a glove.
15:38:43
Cindy:
or something along those lines
15:38:46
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: Facts
15:38:59
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, like Tor!
15:39:39
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: I agree. But Doris next door has never heard of Tor. Thank god! But the people who have the brain capacity to exist slightly outside the mainstream do. Same goes for XMR. And I know who I want on side.
15:40:14
yurimyname:matrix.org:
The only way xmr would become mainstream is if the powers that be could get backdoor access (?) or control most nodes
15:41:03
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
BlueyHealer: I agree. I don't even want it for any illicit purposes. I like the ideology behind it, and I like the store of wealth that I can carry anywhere absolutely privately. So when the elites screw things over, via wars or whatever, I don't need to sweat their FIAT crap becoming worthless.
15:41:12
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: Man teach Doris some Tor, poor lady living in the past 😪
15:41:32
liberavento:
https://kyc.rip/
15:41:50
liberavento:
I found that ☝🏻
15:41:54
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
tf is that
15:42:02
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
sorry never heard of it that's why I ask lmao
15:42:32
Cindy:
kaigoh: nowadays i do see more and more people steer slightly outside the mainstream
15:42:37
liberavento:
real market place outside the CEXs
15:42:44
Cindy:
normies even switching to linux, having the clippy pfp
15:42:45
Cindy:
etc.
15:43:47
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: I know! I can't tell you (sad, I know) how happy it makes me to see normies moaning about Windows and being brave enough to make the move. Though I suspect Valve and Steam Deck might be owed some credit there.
15:43:55
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
liberavento: never heard of it some I'm a little iffy bout using it BUT, if its legit, it seems like a good addition to having Trocador/Infinity Exchanger
15:44:05
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: I think a seismic shift is happening, albeit slowly, but I agree.
15:44:49
BlueyHealer:
But Doris next door has never heard of Tor. <- IDK, people are using quite a variety of methods to circumvent ISP blocks and Tor is an easy and free one. So very well might've heard of it.
15:46:04
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
BlueyHealer: But usually only those in the know. Look at what the UK is currently going through with regards The Online Safety Act. I'm yet to have a conversation with anyone who knows what Tor is, but more and more know what a VPN is.
15:50:35
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@kaigoh:gohegan.uk: VPN , contrary to popular believe, is very mainstream, people just don't understand the technology and ignore it later on in life
15:51:26
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
but I remember in highschool, grade 9 or so, everybody like "Get Psiphon VPN or Hotspot Shield VPN to bypass the school block so y'all can use social media and YouTube" 😂😂😂😂
15:51:41
Cindy:
i remember hotspot shield
15:52:01
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Cindy: You just had to be there, shit was popping 😂😂
15:52:28
alem:
i feel like vpns are more popular because they're always marketed with a purpouse besides user privacy
15:52:50
alem:
the average user doesn't really care, they just want to watch the office on netflix
15:52:57
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
alem: Facts, specially the "Stream other countries content on Netflix!" marketing tactic lmao
15:53:07
alem:
exactly lmao
15:53:11
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
which I mean, if that gets more people to use a VPN, I'm not mad, but its funny 😂
15:53:53
Cindy:
i think netflix has VPN detection methods now
15:54:13
alem:
i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing that tor is still not mainstream
15:54:15
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Cindy: they do but they lowkey suck tbh
15:54:17
Cindy:
if they can't reliably determine your country (from proxy usage), they'll just show you content they have world-wide rights to
15:54:29
Cindy:
instead world-wide + your country
15:54:35
alem:
few people host tor nodes and if it went really popular bandwidth would scarce
15:55:05
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
alem: the bandwith would be a scary sight if it goes mainstream 😂
15:55:48
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Omg $507, who is pumping, what is going on 😂
15:56:17
alem:
oh hell yeah keep stacking
15:57:35
Cindy:
no price talk pls
15:57:48
Cindy:
there's a seperate channel for price talk
16:02:27
ofrnxmr:
#monero-markets:monero.social
16:03:00
BlueyHealer:
BlueyHealer: But usually only those in the know. <- in my experience... Not really. When your favorite social media gets blocked, you find the easiest ways to get it back. Although most of the time I see sketchy free noname VPNs rather than Tor.
16:03:54
ofrnxmr:
Favorite social media sites like to block tor, even the ones who once had hidden services (facebook, twitter, i think reddit did too)
16:04:48
Cindy:
facebook's hidden service doesn't work because they didn't take into account that tor users look like they all have the same IP
16:04:52
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Tor can be painful to use to browse the Normienet
16:04:53
Cindy:
same for reddit
16:05:04
Cindy:
twitter's service is just.. dead
16:05:06
alem:
the normienet lmao
16:05:13
Cindy:
it uses HTTPS over onion, but the HTTPS cert is expired
16:05:28
BlueyHealer:
Few people use "legit" streaming here though
16:05:32
Cindy:
i wonder how they forgot to renew the HTTPS cert, or maybe elon fired the guy who maintained the service
16:06:20
BlueyHealer:
ofrnxmr, true. However, funnily enough, Reddit IS consistently accessible over Tor, but is one of the only sites I've seen (maybe the only one) that blocks my proxy.
16:06:37
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
I think the world would be a better place if Twitter and Facebook vanished full stop, not just from Tor
16:06:51
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, Twitter is impossible to browse in its vanilla form anyway...
16:07:18
BlueyHealer:
Like, I can't even see REPLIES. This was actually why I left a couple years ago, except they didn't even show the post itself.
16:07:33
BlueyHealer:
kaigoh, it's about time!
16:07:56
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
I get blocked accessing Reddit via VPN all the time... > <BlueyHealer> ofrnxmr, true. However, funnily enough, Reddit IS consistently accessible over Tor, but is one of the only sites I've seen (maybe the only one) that blocks my proxy.
16:07:59
Cindy:
you can tell what was the budget and priority for these hidden services
16:08:17
Cindy:
simply by the fact how they always forgot to write their anti-bot detection to exempt tor users
16:08:22
Cindy:
it NEVER works
16:08:45
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: If I remember correctly, the priority was the Arab Spring for socials over Tor?
16:08:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Literally perm banned on reddit for using tor
16:09:12
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Hm this all seems oddly offtopic
16:09:13
BlueyHealer:
I'm just sad that a lot of people who did leave left for Bluesky instead of Mastodon. Like... It is better than staying on Twitter, but this is fundamentally not that different. Every time I saw Bluesky's success mentioned on Lemmy, the first comments are "why not Mastodon".
16:09:14
hbs:matrix.org:
That's incorrect, will just impact credit institutions and CASPs/VASPs, other businesses will be able to continue to accept XMR legally. > <Cindy> there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU
16:09:38
BlueyHealer:
ofrnxmr, lol, I got shadowbanned on Reddit for DOING NOTHING!
16:09:45
nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev:
!crypto XMR eur
16:09:54
nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev:
.crypto XMR eur
16:10:00
nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev:
.monero
16:10:08
BlueyHealer:
hbs, did something change? I've heard it was about the organizations in general.
16:10:48
BlueyHealer:
Also, under what context would credit institutions and such would even encounter XMR?
16:12:00
binaryFate:
Binaries for latest version v0.18.4.5 are now available at getmonero.org
16:12:09
gan:skhron.org:
Bluesky have a better protocol than AP, but it's hardly a success > <BlueyHealer> I'm just sad that a lot of people who did leave left for Bluesky instead of Mastodon. Like... It is better than staying on Twitter, but this is fundamentally not that different. Every time I saw Bluesky's success mentioned on Lemmy, the first comments are "why not Mastodon".
16:12:28
Cindy:
bluesky just slapped on a scraper
16:12:42
hbs:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Show me the legal document that says that, I've never encountered it
16:13:43
Cindy:
hbs: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32024R1624
16:14:01
Cindy:
fucking cloudfront
16:14:34
Cindy:
this is the legal document
16:15:09
BlueyHealer:
gan, from what I've heard, it'd require a lot more resources to host a "proper" server.
16:15:46
Cindy:
"Credit institutions, financial institutions and crypto-asset service providers shall be prohibited from keeping anonymous bank and payment accounts, anonymous passbooks, anonymous safe-deposit boxes or anonymous crypto-asset accounts as well as any account otherwise allowing for the anonymisation of the customer account holder or the anonymisation or increased obfuscation of transactions, including through
16:15:52
Cindy:
anonymity-enhancing coins."
16:16:22
gan:skhron.org:
BlueyHealer: I moved the convo into the offtopic room, if you'd love to continue
16:17:20
hbs:matrix.org:
Cindy: Yep, so not concerning organizations at large, you can still have a small business and accept XMR as now
16:17:20
BlueyHealer:
Ok!
16:19:05
Cindy:
hbs: but it applies to swappers too
16:19:26
Cindy:
"
16:19:28
Cindy:
Directive (EU) 2018/843 was the first legal instrument to address the risks of money laundering and terrorist financing posed by crypto-assets in the Union. It extended the scope of the AML/CFT framework to two types of crypto-asset service providers: providers engaged in exchange services between virtual currencies and fiat currencies, and custodian wallet providers. "
16:20:04
Cindy:
"In order to ensure effective application of AML/CFT requirements to crypto-assets, it is necessary to prohibit the provision and the custody of anonymous crypto-asset accounts or accounts allowing for the anonymisation or the increased obfuscation of transactions by crypto-asset service providers, including through anonymity-enhancing coins."
16:20:06
BlueyHealer:
Are there even reputable swappers that only exist on Tor or I2P?
16:20:50
Cindy:
the legislation also extends this to crypto ATMs
16:20:55
Cindy:
to quote: "Conversely, activities such as the provision of crypto-asset services through ATMs constitute an establishment having regard to the limited physical equipment needed for operators that mainly service their customers through the internet, as is the case for crypto-asset service providers."
16:22:39
Cindy:
hbs: i guess yes you can accept XMR, but this kills most sources of obtaining XMR
16:23:00
Cindy:
except P2P transactions or mining
16:23:05
nioc:
Crypto on the internet?
16:23:32
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, ATMs are apparently nonexistent here already... There used to be one but it was KYC
16:23:37
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
Cindy: Which is the best and most sustainable way forward, I think
16:23:49
Cindy:
also don't you think it's only just Monero
16:23:51
Cindy:
"‘anonymity-enhancing coins’ means crypto-assets that have built-in features designed to make crypto-asset transfer information anonymous, either systematically or optionally"
16:23:59
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, but P2P is big anyway
16:24:01
Cindy:
"optionally", yup Zcash will also be affected
16:24:20
BlueyHealer:
Especially given how Bisq is bigger than Haveno and you can use it instead
16:24:22
Cindy:
unless they completely strip shielded transactions from their system
16:24:53
BlueyHealer:
But what about the BTC that was swapped to from XMR?
16:24:57
BlueyHealer:
Haven't dug into that
16:25:12
BlueyHealer:
And some companies accept LTC/BTC only anyway already.
16:25:29
Cindy:
they are literally going after centralized swappers too (that reside in the EU at least)
16:26:19
redsh4de:matrix.org:
Cindy: or add a long-talked about backdoor for compliance
16:26:46
BlueyHealer:
I mean that came from swappers located elsewhere, because they're definitely not going extinct
16:26:59
Cindy:
better yet, they could just conspire to not mine shielded transactions
16:27:10
Cindy:
only mine shielded->unshielded or unshielded transactions
16:27:19
Cindy:
this was already done before by a pool
16:27:26
BlueyHealer:
Really?
16:27:35
hbs:matrix.org:
Atomic swaps? > <Cindy> hbs: i guess yes you can accept XMR, but this kills most sources of obtaining XMR
16:27:36
Cindy:
F2Pool refused to mine shielded transactions
16:27:41
Cindy:
once
16:27:54
Cindy:
i think their excuse was they couldn't write support for shielded transactions
16:28:00
Cindy:
so they barely mined any, only mined unshielded
16:29:08
Cindy:
but like, here's the deal, zcash is already taken over by one giant pool (on the PoW side)
16:29:15
Cindy:
the PoS side is also taken over by the devs themselves
16:29:27
Cindy:
they could just.. make an agreement together to never mine shielded
16:30:36
Cindy:
they could just.. make an agreement together to never mine shielded
16:30:41
Cindy:
(reposted just for you BlueyHealer)
16:33:15
Cindy:
what makes it worse is that the legislation also goes after "crowdfunding"
16:33:49
Cindy:
not just crypto-asset service providers
16:35:28
BlueyHealer:
Yeah that could be concerning, because some charity causes can be interpreted as "crowdfunding"
16:36:21
Cindy:
or even accepting donations in XMR
16:37:16
BlueyHealer:
yeah
16:38:49
liberavento_:
ath is close to be overtaken
16:39:17
Cindy:
price talk elsewhere please
16:39:28
Cindy:
/TOPIC says #monero-markets
16:39:41
liberavento_:
ah okay 👌🏻
16:44:21
ravfx:xmr.mx:
It's the normal thing. > <Cindy> i think their excuse was they couldn't write support for shielded transactions
16:44:21
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Always support transparent transaction. Shielded is always optionel
17:21:09
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
Cindy: says invite only for me, do I have to be in the monero.social servers?
17:21:40
Cindy:
works for me, but i'm a IRC user
17:22:15
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
ahhh, I'm on matrix, maybe thats why I guess
17:29:43
DataHoarder:
probably cause of some spam a couple weeks ago
17:29:53
DataHoarder:
might need to poke the ops there
17:49:05
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Cindy: Its not bridged
17:49:19
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
DataHoarder: I dont remember spam in markets
17:49:27
Cindy:
oh
17:49:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Probably room state was reset cuz matrix is ass
17:49:33
DataHoarder:
libera spam if it was bridged
17:49:44
DataHoarder:
fair, too
17:49:57
DataHoarder:
I can't remember which one it was that had different ops
17:50:11
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Markets room was one of the most broken rooms for a long time
17:52:45
plowsof:
markets room is the one where you say "i cant join because it says invite only or something" and ops say 'its fine' then you just give up - but i think this was fixed recently
17:53:27
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
yea
17:53:39
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
It was fixed like a year ago
17:53:58
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Was a pita and server admin had to do a bunch of backend stuff
17:54:19
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Which makes me thing the room state was probably reset due to shitty matrix
17:54:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
It says the room is public when i look at it
18:09:41
DataHoarder:
probably migrate it to a new version and see if that fixes it :D
18:16:13
ofrnxmr:
Thats what i was thinking
18:16:20
ofrnxmr:
Should just upgrade the room atp
19:25:10
milas900:matrix.org:
I can’t understand why people have all their life on WhatsApp and some of them work in IT. And when I challenge them to use more secure things they say I have nothing to hide
19:25:26
milas900:matrix.org:
Do you encounter such mindset in your daily life ?
19:26:48
ofrnxmr:
I use whatsapp
19:27:27
ofrnxmr:
I also use facebook, instagram, snapchat, tiktok
19:27:28
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: For all ur communications ?
19:27:35
ofrnxmr:
of course not
19:27:58
ofrnxmr:
Im here, arent i. I use matrix, signal, simplex etc as well
19:28:20
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: So once you grant access to photos and mic and location it takes all data
19:28:48
ofrnxmr:
for most people that use social media, whatsapp is a tier above
19:28:54
milas900:matrix.org:
Once you download it on your mobile and grant access then your data flies .. people understand this right ?
19:29:29
ofrnxmr:
These people post their location publicly, intentionally, and share pictures of their food, workouts, swimming, whateber, in real time
19:29:33
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: But you understand it’s not about using multiple apps. It’s about granting access to WhatsApp enables them to take your data without your permission
19:29:43
ofrnxmr:
extreme privacy isnt something that they care about
19:30:06
Cindy:
milas900: i use whatsapp too
19:30:13
Cindy:
but in a seperate profile and with restricted permissions
19:30:14
ofrnxmr:
@milas900:matrix.org: They share this data with the world already, intentionally
19:30:19
Cindy:
on grapheneOS
19:30:30
ofrnxmr:
Whatsapp doesnt have access to my contacts or media
19:30:33
Cindy:
i don't even allow it to access my mic, contacts or location
19:31:01
milas900:matrix.org:
Cindy: Ok so the trick is not when to use the app. The trick is what access you provide the app
19:31:08
milas900:matrix.org:
My understanding is correct !?
19:31:10
ofrnxmr:
But everyone you know already gave whatsapp your phone number, and whatever else they had stored in ypur contact
19:31:59
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: Yes but what I’m saying if you grant access to any app your microphone so it can spy on you without your authorization and the OS doesn’t stop it
19:32:36
ofrnxmr:
so whatsapp already knows "ofrnxmr, mobile: 1231231234 home: 2242342345 email: ofrn@goatsonly.xyz email: ofrnxmr@makeawish.gov"
19:33:15
ofrnxmr:
Why would i think that whatsapp is eavesdropping on me, but the phone app isnt?
19:33:54
ofrnxmr:
@ofrnxmr: And any alias that other people uploaded my contact with
19:33:56
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: Because WhatsApp is meta, their dream to create metaverse by profiling each individual on the metaverse
19:34:27
ofrnxmr:
And android is google, who's entire business model has always been to scrape your data
19:35:25
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: Goggle data more raw
19:35:25
milas900:matrix.org:
Facebook data more about profiling ,behavior, friends
19:35:33
ofrnxmr:
windows is m$, ubuntu is canonical. Signal is cia, simplex is some random guy who was funded by the worst of the worst
19:36:25
ofrnxmr:
Google data more raw? They have the largest "free" email provider gmail, storage backup google drive, know every app you install on your phone
19:36:44
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: No but there should be some minimum measures taken. I’m not talking about extreme.
19:36:45
BlueyHealer:
I could avoid Whatsapp but not Telegram :(
19:36:46
ofrnxmr:
Their text messaging app and keyboars learns about you
19:37:01
milas900:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: Ok fair enough what measures should be taken by normal people ?
19:37:06
ofrnxmr:
I dont use telegram and dont knkw anyone irl that does
19:37:13
ofrnxmr:
@milas900:matrix.org: Whatever they feel like
19:37:37
ofrnxmr:
so none. If they dont care about uploading their nudes to google drive, why should i
19:37:40
BlueyHealer:
I switched to Grapheneos but this is situation-dependent, I was willing to spend $300 on a phone because I really wanted a degoogled OS.
19:37:48
ofrnxmr:
Why should i carw what they do*
19:37:59
BlueyHealer:
ofrnxmr, everyone around me is on TG. University and IRL meetups.
19:38:13
milas900:matrix.org:
Question is there any plugin can be created when two people chat they chat is encrypted
19:38:14
ofrnxmr:
BlueyHealer: different demographic / locale
19:38:19
milas900:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: How to degoogle share some thoughts
19:39:17
BlueyHealer:
I shared the best way to degoogle - removing Google services from the OS. But this may not be for everyone. Before that, I disabled Google services with ADB, but don't know if some spyware remained active.
19:39:20
milas900:matrix.org:
The only way it will work if monero xmr goes to some built in communication app which is private
19:39:36
milas900:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Any article to read ?
19:39:44
BlueyHealer:
But before that, I just treated my phone as "public" and did anything even remotely private on my laptop.
19:40:14
BlueyHealer:
milas900, I don't think finance and comms mix together. Better do one thing and do it well.
19:41:50
BlueyHealer:
also yeah, switching the keyboard is one of the first things I did on the old phone. But I don't know how impactful this was because the Google Services had essentially root and I don't know what they collect... Like, do they collect the messages you do on XMPP?
19:41:56
Cindy:
milas900: the trick is what access you provide whatsapp yes
19:42:02
Cindy:
also keep seperate identities
19:42:20
BlueyHealer:
I assumed they do because it's just an easier adsumptipn to make while you can't check granularly, so did the private things on the laptop.
19:43:19
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, yeah, if I were to use it, I'd do so in a separate profile, I think the isolation is good enough.
19:43:38
milas900:matrix.org:
And how to get phone non kyc!?
19:44:34
BlueyHealer:
Depends on what you need and where.
19:45:27
milas900:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Just for WhatsApp
19:45:30
milas900:matrix.org:
Coz many people force me to download WhatsApp to talk to them but I just can’t digest this app
19:45:37
milas900:matrix.org:
Each time I see this app I remember mark zuckherberg
19:45:45
milas900:matrix.org:
And I get a little bit diarrhea
19:46:08
BlueyHealer:
Tbh I don't know about phone rentals that much.
19:46:28
milas900:matrix.org:
I started to take care about privacy after mark Zuckerberg irritating speeches
19:46:50
BlueyHealer:
But I remember seeing discussions on a forum that Whatsapp refused to work properly on Graphene, probably wanting Play Integrity.
19:47:21
milas900:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Interesting. I also heard that signal doesn’t ring when you call people
19:47:41
milas900:matrix.org:
Android degrades the operation of these apps and surprise surprise WhatsApp works perfect
19:48:56
BlueyHealer:
Eh, I don't think there's a conspiracy here tbh
19:49:17
BlueyHealer:
Bigger company, more polish
19:52:13
milas900:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: Graphene need which phone for downloading ?
19:53:37
btcdwed:
https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
19:54:10
Cindy:
google pixels
19:54:15
Cindy:
from 6 to 10
19:54:23
Cindy:
though i recommend 7 or 8
19:54:49
milas900:matrix.org:
Cindy: Is it coz they got help from Google or the os designers choose this ?
19:54:56
milas900:matrix.org:
Why not other phones
19:55:06
Cindy:
the OS designers chose it because pixels have much better security models than other phones
19:55:15
Cindy:
google tends to care a lot about the security of their phones
19:55:41
milas900:matrix.org:
So why they didn’t choose iPhone ?
19:55:50
Cindy:
because you can't load another OS on an iphone
19:56:20
milas900:matrix.org:
Cindy: What if jailbreak ?
19:56:33
milas900:matrix.org:
On pixel u don’t need to jailbreak right ?
19:56:46
Cindy:
no, you don't need to jailbreak a pixel
19:56:57
Cindy:
but even if you jailbreak a iphone, it's not enough
19:57:06
Cindy:
you need a boot-level exploit to actually load another OS
19:57:13
Cindy:
not just any jailbreak
19:57:37
Cindy:
also btw, grapheneOS devs frown upon using exploits to unlock the bootloader
19:57:50
Cindy:
because an attacker could do the same
19:59:04
Cindy:
this is why they don't choose any other phone, since pixels let you unlock the bootloader, flash the OS and relock it
20:00:48
BlueyHealer:
I don't think there even are jailbreaks for the newest iOS at all (not like it'd help in this case as mentioned earlier).
20:02:15
Cindy:
it wouldn't help because you need something that lets you overwrite the boot firmware
20:02:50
BlueyHealer:
Yeah you mentioned it just clarifying the other part
20:03:20
Cindy:
oh i see
20:04:43
BlueyHealer:
(may be mistaken)
20:05:15
Cindy:
it wouldn't really help anyway because grapheneOS devs don't like exploits to unlock the bootloader
20:05:40
Cindy:
they want something official since it comes with security guarantees
20:17:23
sech1:
re whatsapp - even if you run it on grapheneos, and don't give access to contacts/mic/photos/location, it still leaks knows your IP address (= approximate location). Use VPN
20:24:43
ofrnxmr:
Right.
20:24:43
ofrnxmr:
graphene literally calls home everyday to check for updates with no option to disable it (i block internet access to the updater using a firewall)
20:25:17
ofrnxmr:
If you want perfect privacy on a mobile phone.. then throw the phone away
20:35:31
sech1:
yeah. You go to your favorite pizzeria, connect to their wifi and boom - all your apps see the new IP and know you're in that specific pizzeria (from geo location of the other people with the same IP)
21:03:49
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
@ofrnxmr: Why would it matter if you contact grapheneos for updates daily?
21:04:25
johnjenkinss:unredacted.org:
like , what's the risk there? I use VPN 24/7 with only turning it off sometimes for like 5 minutes at most, but just curious
21:06:02
kaigoh:gohegan.uk:
@johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Like all things, I guess it depends on your threat model. I think the bigger point is that you can't turn it off, so phone home functionality is not optional out of the box.
22:43:34
icarolongo:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/TSGnqMHsVfxsRFwwGWhWpyTd.png (Screenshot_20260111_223430.png)
22:44:33
icarolongo:
Today, the Monero all-time high: US$ 550.10
22:45:24
Cindy:
go to #monero-markets
22:45:25
Cindy:
now
22:46:23
elongated:matrix.org:
Cindy: Let him rejoice while it lasts
23:20:07
cringe_af:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pVjZYhQwlaxhhkikjUAoPwCp.png (image.png)
23:20:09
cringe_af:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/mzpJCZRhpAdzmuojFEonUqxN.png (image.png)
23:25:42
plowsof:
evasion and meme but i understand