00:11:01
angled:matrix.angled.rip:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: huh this is interesting
00:15:15
angled:matrix.angled.rip:
oh cool there's like a crypto club near where I live, should go see whasup lol
01:40:28
cosmos777:matrix.org:
How to get other crypto listed in Retroswap/Haveno?
02:18:47
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Request it on the listing repo
15:57:24
gingeropolous:
looking to stop paying annual fees for paymonero.com and payxmr.com . hopefully someone with a good rep wants to develop them and i can transfer.
18:15:01
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Question:
18:15:01
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Mining pool, is it safe to create a public pool and use a "local" public node that is widely used? I mean, it won't risk to make it slower for node user or make the pool slower because a lot of user use the node?
18:15:01
ravfx:xmr.mx:
No idea what zmq does but does it use that instead of rpc (and does monerod use a different thread for that or it stuff it in the easy to overload rpc threads)
18:15:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yes : xmr.mx mining pool soon™
18:16:16
milas900:matrix.org:
@gingeropolous: What is should be about ?
18:17:58
milas900:matrix.org:
Guys question about Adam back ? He is sold right ? He looks like someone controls him now
18:22:02
Cindy_:
https://www.404media.co/github-ban-suspension-adult-modding-games-illusion/
18:31:51
DataHoarder:
ZMQ Monero pushes data to you
18:32:05
DataHoarder:
RPC you poll Monero for data
18:32:23
DataHoarder:
p2pool uses ZMQ and gets mining data and transactions or blocks as fast as monerod gets them compared to RPC
18:32:42
Cindy_:
i have a question related to monero_wallet (rust)
18:32:55
Cindy_:
the functions that scan for received outputs work on ScannableBlocks
18:33:03
Cindy_:
the question is, how do you get ScannableBlocks?
18:33:19
Cindy_:
is there a part of monero-oxide that can provide connection to a monerod node?
18:44:01
Cindy_:
is kayabaNerve here?
18:44:24
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
Generally.
18:45:01
Cindy_:
well since you're the developer i think, uhh
18:45:12
Cindy_:
would you be up to responding? :)
18:45:14
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
There was monero-oxide/rpc to fetch ScannableBlocks. We'll shortly be replacing it with monero-oxide/interface though (now that the PR is approved).
18:46:12
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
Ah. Merged four hours ago ^_^
18:46:27
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
There's monero-oxide/interface, monero-interface.
18:47:04
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
https://monero-oxide.github.io/monero-oxide/monero_interface/index.html
18:47:25
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
The literal instantiation is monero-daemon-rpc and monero-simple-request-rpc.
18:48:39
Cindy_:
oh, so very very very recent
18:48:47
Cindy_:
good thing i asked now rather than 4 hours ago
18:48:48
Cindy_:
:P
18:51:36
kayabanerve:matrix.org:
The PR has been around for a while and usable via its branch 😅 It's just only merged into main so recently.
18:54:38
Cindy_:
kayabanerve: monero-daemon-rpc is just.. a lib.rs
18:55:44
Cindy_:
i'd like to just read blocks from an existing monero node (C++ or cuprate or whatever)
19:01:33
Cindy_:
i'm just dumb :P
19:01:42
Cindy_:
i didn't actually look at the monero-oxide repository well
19:04:06
marioob:matrix.org:
github banned developers making porn games for children? What took them so long? > <Cindy_> https://www.404media.co/github-ban-suspension-adult-modding-games-illusion/
19:05:01
Cindy_:
adult is written on the headline
19:05:07
Cindy_:
and several times throughout the article
19:06:05
Cindy_:
where did you get the "for children" thing from
19:07:16
ufo808:matrix.org:
lmao Illusion studio mentioned, I have installed one of their games on my windows dual boot
19:07:35
ufo808:matrix.org:
didn't know that github had many mods for this type of games
19:08:50
marioob:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/IrZqJnUYHyXRjJzZJMvCukGq.png (Screenshot From 2026-01-07 19-07-33.png)
19:09:15
marioob:matrix.org:
I believe this is what they call furry fetishism. I hope this is correct in english
19:09:37
marioob:matrix.org:
And I have seen much worse than this picture
19:09:46
LibDem:
you have to be completely retarded to use shithub to begin with - oh wait...
19:10:18
marioob:matrix.org:
I wish I never saw Naruto...not at that age.
19:10:19
Cindy_:
"furry fetishism"?
19:10:26
Cindy_:
the character in the pic is a human
19:10:40
LibDem:
"privacy coins" developers extensively use shithub-NSA while pretending to care about privacy
19:11:12
Cindy_:
what did you eat today
19:11:12
Cindy_:
are you intentionally being dumb :P
19:11:28
marioob:matrix.org:
Cindy_: I don't really know the terms/labels
19:12:27
BlueyHealer:
Also what's wrong with furries lol
19:12:49
eddie:oblak.be:
LibDem: privacy focussed channels are plentiful on youtube. There's this thing called pragmatism ..
19:13:04
Cindy_:
some people are very conservative :P
19:13:29
LibDem:
eddie - right, that's being a self-refuting clown who likes to pretend he's "pragmatic"
19:13:35
eddie:oblak.be:
you can perfectly download monero from private gitlab instance, github is just a build engine
19:13:44
BlueyHealer:
If you're outside of Youtube exclusively and trying to get people's attention to how bad Youtube is, the effectiveness is questionable lol
19:14:33
marioob:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/bpFGiEihakBzCRLCeSTwmspT.png (london dildo butt monkey.png)
19:14:42
marioob:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: you tell me please!
19:14:55
eddie:oblak.be:
@marioob:matrix.org: what, why, ..
19:15:02
Cindy_:
what the fuck is that
19:15:26
marioob:matrix.org:
It's much, I know. Sorry.
19:15:32
Cindy_:
i knew the NFTs gone down, but i didn't know they went THAT down :P
19:15:50
BlueyHealer:
Is this one of the cases when you should be happy IRC doesn't have images?
19:16:10
Cindy_:
yes
19:16:17
marioob:matrix.org:
you can still post links to images
19:16:34
marioob:matrix.org:
here it just make it easier I guess
19:17:15
BlueyHealer:
Mari? Is it a Maribot member?
19:17:25
LibDem:
marioob are you complaining that shithub isn't retarded enough anyway? It's a complete shithole of course but you want even to engage in more censorship?
19:18:01
LibDem:
I mean "but you want them to engage in even more censorship?"
19:21:13
marioob:matrix.org:
If you want an answer in the way you asked the question: inapropriate things should not even have made their way there.
19:21:13
marioob:matrix.org:
The reality is they allow some things to happen in order to have excuse to do much worse censorship even on things completely lawful.
19:23:13
marioob:matrix.org:
I see this frequently happening in real world. Is called: fabricate a problem and get fat on selling the solution. If I am not mistaken, the same goes with github here.
19:28:24
rbrunner7:
"get fat on selling the solution". Well, at least with GitHub we did not yet enter that phase?
19:28:50
Cindy_:
this is microsoft in general
19:28:55
Cindy_:
they never change
19:29:04
LibDem:
so we have some random guy here whining because shithub isn't censored enough
19:29:34
LibDem:
there's no problem with shithub, except that it needs more censorship to "protect the children"
19:29:43
LibDem:
can't make this shit up
19:30:11
LibDem:
which TLA do you work for mario?
19:30:22
rbrunner7:
Frankly, I wouldn't change either if I was what, the 3rd most valuable company on Earth. Why should I?
19:30:55
BlueyHealer:
I might've missed something, but wasn't the subject in question illegal/immoral?
19:31:14
LibDem:
censorship is immoral yes
19:31:38
Cindy_:
BlueyHealer: github took down repos because they were adult games or mods of adult games
19:31:45
Cindy_:
and also suspended their accounts
19:32:01
LibDem:
but let me repeat this again, shithub is anti-privacy weapon - that's the only thing that matters
19:32:02
Cindy_:
without any prior notice
19:32:07
marioob:matrix.org:
glad I ditched them some years ago. Full on Linux now. Literally 0 big tech services I use. > <Cindy_> they never change
19:32:17
BlueyHealer:
Ah, sorry, lost the logs for the upper part of the conversation.
19:32:55
BlueyHealer:
Anyway doesn't seem like something I'm interested in researching, and not interested in this conversation either.
19:33:36
plowsof:matrix.org:
LibDem knows best and is here to punish us all for everything wrong in the world
19:34:05
LibDem:
I certainly know better than a bunch of feds whining about "porn" on shihub plowsof
19:35:00
LibDem:
there's this gem too microshit is the "3rd most valuable company on Earth" -- haha valuable?
19:35:07
plowsof:matrix.org:
make sure to abide by the policy of the irc network you are on at the moment or you will be censored https://libera.chat/policies/
19:35:08
marioob:matrix.org:
I don't understand the reason for this personal attack. I am expressing my opinion and I do not force you to agree with it. And to be clear, I do not tolerate porn for any age. And I have a special kind of problem with child porn. It infects and corrupts human mind. > <LibDem> so we have some random guy here whining because shithub isn't censored enough
19:35:33
LibDem:
plowsof lolwhat - are you threatening me?
19:35:35
BlueyHealer:
what is even going on here
19:35:45
BlueyHealer:
Edgelords I guess.
19:35:59
Cindy_:
LibDem: no, he's just telling you to not violate libera's policy
19:36:12
LibDem:
which is an absurd remark Cindy_
19:36:22
Cindy_:
well, #monero is not above libera's policy
19:36:37
LibDem:
liberas policy is meaningless - just an excuse for censorship
19:36:54
Cindy_:
then just get out?
19:37:01
plowsof:matrix.org:
like one of those wind up monkeys 😆
19:37:14
Cindy_:
you don't wanna be like #monero-pools :P
19:37:26
Cindy_:
they thought they were above libera's policy, then they got closed down for good by the ops
19:37:28
LibDem:
it can be "enforced" by them whenever they want by "interpreting" it
19:37:37
Cindy_:
and the ops are literally here watching so like
19:39:57
Cindy_:
LibDem: just to be clear, this isn't a free speech room. neither this nor -offtopic
19:40:47
LibDem:
I see - this is a room to whine about porn in shithub.
19:41:00
LibDem:
which is obviously aligned with "privacy coins"
19:41:38
LibDem:
and if I laugh at the nonsense then I am "violating libera's policy"
19:41:56
LibDem:
is that right plowsof?
19:42:42
Cindy_:
we can have offtopic discussions without turning it into a slur competition :P
19:42:52
Cindy_:
y'know, there are boundaries
19:43:14
Cindy_:
it's not like "oh, you can't talk about this shit at all"
19:44:15
plowsof:matrix.org:
marioob posting images (circling relavant parts) and following up with dildo rainbow bear or something? clearly not meant for this #monero room
19:45:13
Cindy_:
yeah that's pretty true
19:48:00
plowsof:matrix.org:
why not share some large projects using git(hub) alternatives and compare features offered?
19:48:35
marioob:matrix.org:
it went a bit sideways. With no intention. > <Cindy_> we can have offtopic discussions without turning it into a slur competition :P
19:49:45
marioob:matrix.org:
@plowsof:matrix.org: you have no option here to use content warnings like on mastodon. And that is public information. I saved it in case the deep state will take it down in future.
19:51:18
Cindy_:
"Content of an explicit nature is discouraged and must consider the comfort and safety of others." - libera.chat policy
19:51:33
LibDem:
'discouraged'
19:51:37
LibDem:
so that's meaningless
19:51:59
BlueyHealer:
lol I wonder where in their opinion the right to free speech ends, because judging by the... upload name, they seem to want to say absolutely whatever
19:52:05
plowsof:matrix.org:
patches can be submitted via IRC ... or even email, github provides alot of stuff and the juice seems to be worth the squeeze until they -delete our repos and arrest everyone- or some doomsday scenario - and in that case there are many people with local gits acting as backups (some are even hosting dedicated mirrors on other none github platforms) and the project lives on
19:52:17
Cindy_:
BlueyHealer: ends at a k-line
19:52:50
LibDem:
plowof - oh you are a supporter of shithub-NSA - thanks for showing your hand - hilarious.
19:53:41
Cindy_:
LibDem: no, it's not black and white
19:53:48
Cindy_:
people can use github without supporting it
19:53:55
Cindy_:
it's another form of submitting patches
19:54:00
plowsof:matrix.org:
thanks for reading my texts and sharing your summary, now then
19:54:49
Cindy_:
people think this place is like a imageboard
19:55:03
Cindy_:
they can just say whatever the fuck they want and upload whatever explicit content
19:55:22
plowsof:matrix.org:
LibDem please link alternatives / scenarios you are concerned about and we can see if they have been addressed in the real world already
19:55:40
Cindy_:
plowsof: forgejo is working on federation btw
19:55:42
LibDem:
the hell do you mean
19:55:51
Cindy_:
like activitypub federation, if this goes well, git forges can federate with each other
19:56:01
Cindy_:
and then it would be a lot better than email or github
19:56:36
LibDem:
plowsof are you pretending shithub-NSA isn't the biggest NSA surveillance system tasked with surveil "software development"?
19:56:49
LibDem:
tasked with surveiling*
19:57:26
Cindy_:
trust me, they can surveil software development even on a mailing list or fucking external git service
19:58:00
Cindy_:
for example, some microsoft employees (executives i think) are subscribed to wine's mailing list
19:58:16
LibDem:
and?
19:58:31
Cindy_:
i don't get what your point is :P
19:58:47
LibDem:
well that's your problem.
19:59:29
Cindy_:
anyone can surveil a open source project, not just the NSA
19:59:40
Cindy_:
google also does the same with invidious or unofficial youtube crap
19:59:47
LibDem:
.....
19:59:54
LibDem:
and what is google?
20:00:04
Cindy_:
a big tech company?
20:00:09
LibDem:
again, can't make this shit up
20:00:27
LibDem:
sorry Cindy_ I'm not playing your little game
20:00:41
Cindy_:
fai
20:00:42
Cindy_:
fair*
20:02:36
BlueyHealer:
Git forges can federate? Nice.
20:03:08
Cindy_:
forgejo is still working on it though
20:06:52
redsh4de:matrix.org:
What about Radicle? peer to peer, nodes replicate repositories, uses Git
20:24:08
pcre:matrix.org:
Would you use git if it were structured like monero-wallet-cli?
20:27:18
Cindy_:
that makes no sense
20:27:41
pcre:matrix.org:
Why?
20:27:49
pcre:matrix.org:
It does
20:30:05
pcre:matrix.org:
You could call monero transfer <URI> in a shell
20:30:54
pcre:matrix.org:
monero tx-proof --signatur <SIG> --message <MSG>
20:35:21
pcre:matrix.org:
git has a set of subcommands like git pull , git push, git clone etc. and command line options. --xyz
20:37:40
pcre:matrix.org:
I know you hate me because I speak the truth. That's why I don't want to push you too far. Please just spend 5 minutes looking into the UNIX philosophy.
20:38:55
ofrnxmr:
wut
20:40:52
plowsof:
monero reset --hard origin/master
20:41:24
pcre:matrix.org:
lol
20:43:22
pcre:matrix.org:
monero ui-reset --hard origin/master
21:02:49
rucknium:
git drain-wallet-without-password
21:03:57
rucknium:
AFAIK most database programs require you to enter into their own terminal to make changes, after you have been authenticated. Same with monero-wallet-cli.
21:04:10
Cindy_:
monero rebase
21:06:17
rucknium:
Any empirical proof that Unix philosophy is better? Or is it just an empty slogan?
21:07:33
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: This is a joke, right?
21:07:39
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
No
21:07:47
rucknium:
No
21:07:53
Cindy_:
No
21:08:22
rucknium:
Just because something sounds good does not mean that it is good.
21:09:47
pcre:matrix.org:
Please help me, plowsof
21:14:42
pcre:matrix.org:
A password is not an argument now. gpg is asking for a password if you want to sign something. > <@rucknium> git drain-wallet-without-password
21:17:34
rucknium:
IIRC, Unix philosophy says that programs should not require interactive input. Inputting a password is interactive. Or you can make it a command-line flag argument, but that's insecure because it's now in your bash history file.
21:18:24
Cindy_:
rucknium: also arguments of another process are public to everyone else
21:18:30
Cindy_:
including processes ran by another user
21:18:53
DataHoarder:
ENV arg!
21:19:03
DataHoarder:
cause even FD are not secret
21:19:42
rucknium:
FD = file descriptor?
21:20:19
DataHoarder:
yes
21:20:25
DataHoarder:
the ones in /proc/<pid>/fd/...
21:20:38
DataHoarder:
you can even inject stuff into fd/console in specific conditions
21:20:58
Cindy_:
you can't access fd/ easily though
21:21:02
pcre:matrix.org:
So you think that if your system has been compromised, monero-wallet-cli would protect you in some way.
21:21:02
Cindy_:
if you're another user
21:21:27
rucknium:
How do I get rid of the too many open files error? I get it a lot and I've tried to solve it without success.
21:21:36
Cindy_:
rucknium: what program are you running
21:21:48
Cindy_:
"too many open files" is usually a sign of bad programming
21:21:55
rucknium:
@pcre:matrix.org: It does because the wallet file is encrypted at rest with its password.
21:22:16
rucknium:
RStudio shows the error
21:22:39
Cindy_:
rstudio?
21:22:41
Cindy_:
roblox studio?
21:22:46
Cindy_:
oh wait
21:22:49
Cindy_:
no wait i'm dumb as fuck
21:22:50
DataHoarder:
yeah, not another user Cindy_, but you can trick programs
21:22:56
DataHoarder:
fdlimit, rucknium
21:22:59
rucknium:
Yes. Roblox Studio
21:23:05
DataHoarder:
you can get up to 64K easily
21:23:28
Cindy_:
i feel like one of those 67 kids now
21:23:35
Cindy_:
i know Roblox more than i know R
21:24:03
DataHoarder:
usually if you don't have that many files it means you aren't closing fd
21:24:23
Cindy_:
i get the "too many open files" error with wine btw
21:24:27
Cindy_:
wine compiled with ntsync
21:24:47
Cindy_:
it opens waaaay too many FDs to /dev/ntsync and stops the program from reading/writing files
21:28:16
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: For critical commands, you also need a password and/or hardware wallet under a bash shell.
21:28:47
Cindy_:
how do hardware wallets work btw
21:29:15
Cindy_:
is it like a security chip inside, and the program just gives TX blobs in, signed TXs out?
21:29:22
Cindy_:
(with consent from user)
21:29:58
rucknium:
The hardware wallet has the actual signing key. The software on a computer passes a tx to the hardware wallet. The hardware wallet signs it and passes it back to the software.
21:30:13
Cindy_:
i guessed that :P
21:30:24
rucknium:
The hardware wallet never gives the signing key to the computer.
21:30:35
Cindy_:
that would make it useless if it did
21:30:45
Cindy_:
it's similar to TPM or ARM trustzone
21:30:56
Cindy_:
processing happens inside, and no secret goes outside the processo
21:30:58
Cindy_:
processor*
21:31:16
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
@marioob:matrix.org: >I believe this is what they call furry fetishism. I hope this is correct in english
21:31:16
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
maybe if yall were more inclusive to the furries, then the monero project wouldnt be still years behind tech-wise:
21:31:16
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/421/commits/da6c47e734f4538cc47e63a5860f4b20abddcbc0
21:31:28
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
like literally how come we in 2026 and still no serai, still no quantum resistance, still no nothin
21:31:28
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
being all like luke dashjr up in this bitch, like "oh no, cant be doing nothing that the jeebus dont approve"
21:31:28
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
fucking retards stg
21:31:28
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/xZr8ntoKX1llblJU ]
21:31:29
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
also, videogamers literally be out here evading taxes since 2001
21:31:29
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
there's a whole videogamers market that is evading taxes, we been evading taxes way before monero yall fucking posers wannabes LMAO
21:31:29
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
https://monerochan.art/commissions/irs_spanking.jpg
21:31:39
Cindy_:
>yall
21:31:45
Cindy_:
references the comment of one user
21:31:58
Cindy_:
one who i disagreed with
21:32:13
rucknium:
Signing processes that require high RAM or CPU are hard to execute on hardware wallets. AFAIK, Zcash still doesn't have z-address signing capability for hardware wallets, but I haven't checked that info in a few months.
21:34:46
Guest92:
I would like to know about the estimated transaction fees that would be incurred for the following scenarios:
21:34:46
Guest92:
A miner is sending 0.6 XMR that was acquired in 1 transaction. The miner mined a block solo.
21:34:47
Guest92:
A miner is sending 0.6 XMR that was acquired in 10 transactions. Each transaction is 0.06 (0.6 * 216/2160) XMR
21:34:47
Guest92:
A miner is sending 0.6 XMR that was acquired in 120 transactions. Each transaction is 0.005 (0.6 * 18/2160) XMR
21:34:48
Guest92:
A miner is sending 0.6 XMR that was acquired in 1080 transactions. Each transaction is ~5.5555556E-4 (0.6 * 2/2160) XMR
21:34:48
Guest92:
A miner is sending 0.6 XMR that was acquired in 2160 transactions. Each transaction is ~2.77777778E-4 (0.6 * 1/2160) XMR
21:34:49
Guest92:
If possible, I would also like to know the minimal feasible sent Monero; At what point will the network transaction fee be equal to or greater than an 'X' quantity of Monero that is being sent.
21:34:49
Guest92:
I am currently drafting an official request for the Monero Team/Community to look into reducing or eliminating transaction fees for the very first consolidation.
21:35:03
rucknium:
Ok. They have had it for a year: https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/its-here-zashi-keystone-hardware-wallet-integration-for-shielded-zec/49784
21:35:04
DataHoarder:
holy spam
21:35:33
Cindy_:
why are you drafting a request
21:35:35
Cindy_:
draft some code!
21:35:43
Cindy_:
draft some.. math formula or some shit
21:35:51
DataHoarder:
this was discussed in a previous MRL
21:36:01
DataHoarder:
14:44:43 <@DataHoarder> https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/issues/388
21:36:01
DataHoarder:
14:44:47 <@DataHoarder> then also https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/issues/390 two days ago
21:36:08
ofrnxmr:
Its a copy paste from reddit
21:36:24
DataHoarder:
https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/108 exists
21:36:26
DataHoarder:
that was the item discussed in MRL
21:37:07
ofrnxmr:
For all of the current math, its pretty simple
21:38:40
ofrnxmr:
what you are calling "transactions", become inputs to the consolidation. Each input added is ~500bytes @ 20000-80000 piconero per byte. therefore the cost to include each input is ~0.00001xmr
21:38:53
ofrnxmr:
On low fee, and 0.00004 on normal
21:41:17
ofrnxmr:
@datahoarder, 108 on ringct would create much smallet txs than a normal consolidation, since the coinbases wouldnt use rings. is this space saving possible in fcmp?
21:48:37
Guest92:
br-m Per the data you have provided, a miner receiving payouts in the form of ~2.77777777778E-4 (0.6 * 1/2160) XMR would be subject to losses of ~3.6% - ~14.4% to transaction fees when consolidating
21:50:49
Guest92:
@br-m Would the Monero Network be capable of identifying or tagging P2Pool payouts so that a P2Pool miner can avoid consolidation fees altogether?
21:55:59
marioob:matrix.org:
@lmaofurries:matrix.org: I don't think I ever brought my sexual fantasies in a professional environment. If we would all do the same, we would be inclusive by definition.
21:57:34
Cindy_:
there are NSFW artists :P
21:59:00
marioob:matrix.org:
the name says it all "not safe" 😆
21:59:31
Cindy_:
there are sexual games being made professionally, and were always made
21:59:52
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
@marioob:matrix.org: so very profesional lmao, lets all suit up to please the saylor moon:
21:59:55
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/NZnsRVOCBmnsnQHrfQItomRb.png (image.png)
22:00:07
pcre:matrix.org:
I would convert monero-wallet-cli into a tui/ncurses wallet. Something like midnight commander + command line option. And additionally a UNIX-compliant wallet. Dreams are still allowed.
22:00:38
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
Cindy_: i made all the nsfw art in my own VN erogame before the AI thing was even a thing :3
22:00:47
Cindy_:
cool
22:00:58
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
👍️
22:01:14
Cindy_:
i remember when sex games were not allowed on consoles
22:01:25
pcre:matrix.org:
Things that can be done with a view-only wallet should simply be queryable on the shell.
22:01:44
Cindy_:
this should be a offtopic discussion btw
22:02:24
marioob:matrix.org:
Is it wrong to prefer decency over depravity? 🤨. Anyway, I will stop here as is deviating again from topic. > <@lmaofurries:matrix.org> @marioob:matrix.org: so very profesional lmao, lets all suit up to please the saylor moon:
22:03:12
ofrnxmr:
Guest92: They are coinbases, and further, are coinbases that are paid to more than 1 recipient
22:03:12
Cindy_:
mario, you sound like a christian dad :P
22:03:54
pcre:matrix.org:
3 Wallets in toral. TUI /UI and GUI.
22:03:55
lmaofurries:matrix.org:
@marioob:matrix.org: remember to do ur prayer tonight and wake up at 7:00 precisely to do your mornin poo that u do everyday at the exact 7:00am, also brush ur teeth and no swearing, jeebus wouldnt like that
22:04:12
ofrnxmr:
Avoiding fees isnt a matter of whether its possible - it is. The problem is that the txs themselves are huge, and you pay to play. That is, you pay for blockspace
22:05:18
plowsof:
😾
22:05:44
ofrnxmr:
As stated in the first message, the min fee to relay a tx is ~0.00002xmr per kb. "free" consolidations arent free. People have to pay to store those
22:06:16
marioob:matrix.org:
Cindy_: I am working towards both 😀
22:06:34
ofrnxmr:
mrl 108 for ringct would get rid of rings on coinbase consolidations and churns. Making the tx much, much smaller
22:09:19
marioob:matrix.org:
Is funny how only Christian religion is taken as absurd, while regarding other religions which are way worse in terms of regulations you never hear such offensive jokes.
22:09:43
ofrnxmr:
#monero-offtopic:monero.social
22:09:49
rucknium:
Wow there is a whole book on this https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf The UNIX-HATERS Handbook
22:10:46
ofrnxmr:
360 pages 😳
22:17:49
Cindy_:
i wanna make a XMR giftcard program (like paper gift wallet) :P
22:17:58
Cindy_:
but instead of a QR code, i'm using an aztec code
22:18:16
Cindy_:
i wonder if devs will even like that
22:19:28
DataHoarder:
22:41:54 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> @datahoarder, 108 on ringct would create much smallet txs than a normal consolidation, since the coinbases wouldnt use rings. is this space saving possible in fcmp?
22:19:28
DataHoarder:
it's already a custom format, FCMP does full proofs
22:19:41
DataHoarder:
in this case, you directly prove over the output/key image
22:19:44
DataHoarder:
so you disclose the spend
22:20:34
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: I'm a fan of anitpattern and I'm aware that UNIX isn't perfect, but name me an operating system that's better.
22:21:59
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
DataHoarder: Is that a yes?
22:22:13
DataHoarder:
FCMP doesn't allow any other than FCMP
22:22:16
DataHoarder:
it works differently
22:23:07
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
So no space saving possible for coinbase consolidations
22:23:46
DataHoarder:
yeah, cause under FCMP there are no rings
22:23:56
DataHoarder:
so you can't just make a ring with one input
22:24:48
elongated:matrix.org:
Consolidating p2pool dust payouts will be feasible?
22:25:15
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Currently they cost the same as any other consolidation
22:25:28
DataHoarder:
there's something in progress p2pool specific, elongated
22:25:35
DataHoarder:
still in research, would be doable with FCMP
22:25:40
DataHoarder:
(aggregation)
22:26:15
elongated:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: Needs another hf?
22:26:30
plowsof:
just let me solo mine my own zerofee transactions in peace with a few thousand of my friends helping
22:26:32
DataHoarder:
it needs FCMP++ transaction chaining
22:29:56
elongated:matrix.org:
DataHoarder: Tx chaining isn’t ready ? Wasn’t that pushed while trying to reduce number of inputs for fcmp++
22:30:06
DataHoarder:
?
22:30:15
DataHoarder:
we don't have FCMP++ yet
22:30:18
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium:monero.social: What's wrong with reprogramming monero-wallet-cli into a TUI/ncurses and adding a UNIX-compliant wallet? TUI + UNIX UI + GUI. All functions that can be performed with a view-only wallet should be easily accessible via a bash shell. Everything else with auth.
22:30:28
Guest92:
The current practice of consolidations is limiting the design and payout capabilities of P2Pool. Based on the provided values, a loss of as high as ~14.4% to send / consolidate ~2.7777777778E-4 XMR (0.6 * 1/2160) is rather notable from my view. The currently available P2Pool chains (main, mini, nano) are unsuitable for low hashrate miners and can
22:30:29
DataHoarder:
I mean that needs that, so it's still in research
22:30:29
Guest92:
not receive large hashrate miners without negatively affecting denizen miners. If consolidation fees were not applicable to miners, the PPLNS window size could be as large as 6E11 and support payouts as small as 1E-12.
22:30:47
DataHoarder:
Guest92: they can take large miners fine
22:30:57
DataHoarder:
your long term earnings are the same, as main shows
22:31:01
DataHoarder:
those payouts are hefty too
22:31:06
DataHoarder:
just ... need patience
22:31:45
Guest92:
Depends on where your definition of a large miner begins
22:33:17
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
No, it doesnt
22:33:21
Guest92:
If you're a 200 KH/s miner on P2Pool main and the pool hashrate goes to 3 - 4 GH/s, your experience probably won't be as good as when the pool was at 200 MH/s
22:33:49
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
And? Instant gratification isnt the be-all-end-all
22:33:57
DataHoarder:
your shares get paid out when found more
22:34:02
DataHoarder:
cause the pool also finds more blocks
22:34:08
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Theres a reason why centralized pools have larger payouts
22:34:13
DataHoarder:
when I get main shares I get 2-3 payouts per
22:34:15
DataHoarder:
it's insane :D
22:34:30
DataHoarder:
takes a couple of days to get one, ofc
22:34:35
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: (Because it costs a larger % to send smaller ones)
22:39:37
pcre:matrix.org:
Rucknium: Imagine something like $ echo 0.025 | monero payment --subaddr $X | qrencode -tUTF8 | gpg --clearsign | .... | msmtp customer@whatever.com
22:40:37
Guest92:
Suppose it were to take 30 days for you to get a share on the pool. Surely you would switch to a different pool even if the payouts were larger and you could be paid multiple times for a share
22:41:14
DataHoarder:
you are trying to treat monero chain like a centralized pool db
22:41:43
DataHoarder:
but sadly due to how monero MUST payout coinbase they can't be aggregated without chaining more txs
22:42:42
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Guest92: Its the same shit. You dont get "paid" on a pool until you git the threshold
22:42:57
DataHoarder:
which in many is like 0.3 XMR
22:43:06
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
until then, its just numbers in a db
22:49:38
pcre:matrix.org:
I just looked up The UNIX-HATERS Handbook from Simson L. Garfinkel on Amazon. 9 reviews. The guy looks like e woke libtard.
22:50:11
Guest92:
Where is the appropriate place to submit a proposal for the monero team/community?
22:50:25
Cindy_:
ooooo, you sure owned the libs
22:50:32
Cindy_:
patriot approved
22:55:08
pcre:matrix.org:
Okay, I take back the “libtard” comment.
22:59:01
DataHoarder:
Guest92: comment on the gh issue linked about coinbase tx inputs
22:59:08
DataHoarder:
it was discussed in a previous MRL then
22:59:27
DataHoarder:
consensus back then TL;DR was no, experiment/research alternatives
23:02:32
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Guest92: havent you shared it like 6 times on 3 different platforms?
23:02:50
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Reddit, github, irc? Over the course of ~1month
23:03:01
rucknium:
> <@pcre:matrix.org> @rucknium:monero.social: What's wrong with reprogramming monero-wallet-cli into a TUI/ncurses and adding a UNIX-compliant wallet? TUI + UNIX UI + GUI. All functions that can be performed with a view-only wallet should be easily accessible via a bash shell. Everything else with auth.
23:03:01
rucknium:
@pcre:matrix.org: There is nothing wrong with making another program to do that, but Monero isn't failing if the monero-wallet-cli doesn't conform to Unix philosophy IMHO.
23:03:25
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Monero isnt failing because its dead
23:03:28
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
(/s)
23:04:01
rucknium:
It's more logical to just use a daemon like monero-wallet-rpc since the program depends so much on a state that changes every 2 minutes on average.
23:04:01
Guest92:
DataHoarder gh issue does not examine the full scope of potential benefits. I will refer to the gh issue in my proposal. The aforementioned issue was created on 2023/01/04 and its last activity was on 2024/10/24. A new proposal / issue would be more appropriate.
23:04:23
rucknium:
To perform an action with a pure CLI, the program has to sync its state with the blockchain first.
23:04:28
DataHoarder:
the last activity for it was recent, couple of weeks ago
23:04:32
DataHoarder:
it just wasn't discussed on github
23:04:37
DataHoarder:
but on a meeting
23:05:28
Guest92:
I think that the current presence of centralized pools with 30+% of the network hashrate should be of concern
23:05:42
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Supoortxmr has ~50%.
23:05:58
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
And weve had 30% pools for as long as i can remember
23:06:08
DataHoarder:
go to the end, activity https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/108 then check https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1296
23:06:20
DataHoarder:
that has the logs where it got discussed
23:06:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
P2pool doesnt solve this, because large miners dont really give a shit about decentralization
23:06:33
DataHoarder:
specifically around the context of p2pool
23:07:58
DataHoarder:
you can make a formal proposal and submit it there, if you have a specific method that would be equivalent, or the topic can be tabled in for discussion again if you convince / have points to bring up that haven't been addressed yet
23:08:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
i wouldnt post the same slop on mrl as has been posted on reddit and p2pool repos
23:08:48
DataHoarder:
as an aside, p2pool also cannot create that many outputs in coinbase miner tx. that counts for the block weight, which reduces its ability to include monero transactions in some cases
23:08:59
DataHoarder:
no, not the same exact slop
23:09:08
Guest92:
The discussion does not cover the limitations of P2Pool and the potential improvement it could experience
23:09:23
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
p2pool is not monero
23:09:25
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: I can understand that. I have already implemented a kind of workaround that uses moner-wallet-rpc. See https://github.com/d4ndox/mnp It was also a provocation to see if you would use git if it worked like monero-wallet-cli.
23:09:27
DataHoarder:
the discussion on MRL brought up the points as well why
23:09:33
DataHoarder:
00:00:02 <DataHoarder> consensus back then TL;DR was no, experiment/research alternatives
23:10:12
DataHoarder:
p2pool is not a first class user, but second class user, so it doesn't get special behavior for it (even if it'd allow other mining pools also to work more efficiently, but they don't have the same magnitude of consolidations)
23:11:03
rucknium:
git also has a lot of design decisions that are poor in retrospect. So I would prefer not to use git now lol
23:11:35
rucknium:
git became popular because github became popular
23:11:37
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: What would you use instead? cvs, svn?
23:11:44
DataHoarder:
for the meaning I give, first class = essential/prioritized and specific changes to monero can be done for the specific use case that maybe has no utility for others
23:11:44
DataHoarder:
second class = adaptations can be done, but not specific to the usage. something that benefits other, yeah
23:12:10
DataHoarder:
some changes to Carrot/FCMP++ were done when brought up, for example. not suggestions all ended up implemented, but that's fine
23:12:13
Guest92:
P2Pool is a desirable development for the Monero network when considering the issue of a 51% attack
23:12:28
DataHoarder:
well, that's my opinion too Guest92 :)
23:12:37
DataHoarder:
but I might be biased and have conflict of interest :')
23:12:44
pcre:matrix.org:
cvs is slow, git is the best out there. May I ask how old you are?
23:12:49
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
P2pool doesnt prevent a 51% attack
23:13:08
DataHoarder:
if a single miner has 51%
23:13:13
DataHoarder:
they will have it on their own
23:13:19
DataHoarder:
without pools or with p2pool
23:13:21
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
like, people can solo and pool mine with the existence of p2pool
23:13:46
DataHoarder:
what it changes is that even if p2pool itself has 51%, no single miner has 51% of monero
23:13:50
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
unless you are to ban solo-mining, you cant really ban pooled hashrate
23:13:59
DataHoarder:
and each miner within p2pool is picking their own txs, blocks, templates
23:14:03
Guest92:
Then it can be argued that a modification to the Monero Network that benefits P2Pool also benefits the Monero Network as a whole
23:14:09
rucknium:
This is git: https://xkcd.com/1597/
23:14:34
DataHoarder:
git gud ez
23:14:37
rucknium:
I think I'm off topic now
23:14:38
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@rucknium: I must disagree
23:14:50
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
:P
23:14:58
DataHoarder:
(have you seen the markov chain generating git commands?)
23:15:03
DataHoarder:
https://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/
23:16:20
DataHoarder:
also for centralized pools
23:16:31
DataHoarder:
self-select exists and is supported in quite a few
23:16:46
DataHoarder:
that removes 51% concerns, as you use your local/selected monero node to make templates
23:17:17
DataHoarder:
I don't have numbers in how many people use that. but it could be a nice stat for pools to display (as informative)
23:17:28
pcre:matrix.org:
@rucknium: lol, fair point. With subversion it was easy to revert a file.
23:17:37
DataHoarder:
it probably is single digits percentage of users that use that
23:17:50
DataHoarder:
https://github.com/jtgrassie/monero-pool/blob/master/sss.md
23:20:30
DataHoarder:
there are various ways to address 51% concerns for willing/not-malicious participants ^ this is one
23:20:42
Guest92:
What would happen if only decentralized miners / pools were to be supported
23:20:48
Guest92:
No more centralized pools
23:20:59
DataHoarder:
how do you achieve that, Guest92
23:21:05
DataHoarder:
a centralized pool can mine via p2pool
23:21:08
DataHoarder:
:)
23:21:13
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
You cant ban pools while allowing p2pool
23:21:15
DataHoarder:
there are a couple that do that already
23:21:22
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
DataHoarder: yep
23:21:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
And they do
23:21:39
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
and they can even run their own p2pool secretly
23:21:48
DataHoarder:
(some are doing that already!)
23:22:02
DataHoarder:
there's a couple of small secret p2pool sidechains
23:22:10
DataHoarder:
you can have a multisig method for what WOW does
23:22:32
DataHoarder:
which has other fun issues
23:23:08
DataHoarder:
there's also many that come in and don't care
23:23:16
DataHoarder:
they go big pool, go mine
23:23:31
DataHoarder:
scream about which ASIC to buy :P
23:23:35
DataHoarder:
cause it must be asic mined, that's all they know
23:24:46
DataHoarder:
if you want to regularly discuss this I'd recommend setting up an IRC account/client so you can stay connected Guest92 or alternatively hop to the matrix bridged side
23:28:46
Guest92:
The proposal currently spans many pages. Is github issue really the best way to submit it?
23:29:31
DataHoarder:
is it a proposal or generated text?
23:30:01
DataHoarder:
like, concrete ways to accomplish things, or numbers without taking into account technical details around it?
23:30:51
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
make a gist and post it on reddit
23:31:00
Cindy_:
make a PDF file
23:31:15
DataHoarder:
a gist is a good idea, yep
23:31:30
DataHoarder:
that can be commented on (and several other in-progress proposals use that)
23:31:52
DataHoarder:
random recent example, PQ Turnstile for Carrot https://gist.github.com/jeffro256/146bfd5306ea3a8a2a0ea4d660cd2243
23:38:54
Guest92:
It's a long docx / odt with an abstract, design patterns / general parameters of PPLNS pools, example scenarios, limitations of P2Pool in context of small hashrate miners, documented instances of P2Pool under attack / encountering undesirable circumstances, etc
23:39:22
Cindy_:
make a PDF file then
23:40:08
Guest92:
and submit it where
23:42:42
rucknium:
Don't make a PDF. Convert it to markdown and post it as gist. GitHub markdown supports LaTeX equations now.
23:43:01
rucknium:
Or you can make it as a PDF and host it on its own GitHub repo.