10:36:20
bikrambiswas:matrix.org:
Everyone left ?
10:41:00
Cindy_:
no
10:44:11
321bob321:
Only ghosts
11:45:52
basses:matrix.org:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115896893036437072
11:46:07
basses:matrix.org:
> Our hardware partner is going to be announcing the partnership soon, so you won't need to wait nearly that long to see they're a huge company that's officially partnered with us and doing most of the work on this on their end. It's not being announced in 2027.
11:51:22
BlueyHealer:
I really wonder if a) the bootloader would be unlockable; b) the phone would drop in price to semi-affordable levels like Pixels do because Pixels start out inaccessible to average-income people and c) if this could mean potentially being able to install GOS on the OEM's normal offerings, because a lot of places would like to ban the GOSphone, and - more mundanely - they're probably not
11:51:24
BlueyHealer:
going to be popular enough to be carried by local resellers.
11:53:05
imprevisto:matrix.org:
#general:grapheneos.org
11:55:45
Cindy:
the bootloader has to be unlockable
11:55:48
Cindy:
and relockable
11:59:53
basses:matrix.org:
if it is motorola then I think they do make big offers like Pixel?
11:59:59
imprevisto:matrix.org:
nice xcancel btw rando
12:00:26
basses:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: price https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1996428733964853348#m
12:01:16
imprevisto:matrix.org:
#nitter:snopyta.org
12:06:23
BlueyHealer:
imprevisto, sir this is a Matrix link
12:07:12
BlueyHealer:
basses, yeah, seen that
12:07:43
BlueyHealer:
This is what I referenced in the concerns about price - because Pixels at least get cheaper with time and new releases.
12:13:09
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Pixels used to ve cheap
12:13:15
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Now they just depreciate fast
12:13:51
basses:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: wym?
12:14:37
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
They used to be $500 brand new and still go for $200 used 4yrs later
12:14:58
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Now they are like $1200 new and $250 usef
12:16:05
basses:matrix.org:
I think because they become cheaper when new phone releases so peope just upgrade anyways
12:16:36
basses:matrix.org:
new phones get like 30% off after 2 months of release
12:17:01
BlueyHealer:
Used to be cheap yet you say $500. No, this is expensive for a phone.
12:17:08
basses:matrix.org:
Pixel is probably the most affordable phones out of chinese brands
12:17:27
BlueyHealer:
basses, mine was about a year old when it became $300. Still painful but acceptable.
12:17:35
basses:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: everything now is expensive
12:18:16
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
BlueyHealer: $500 brand new for pixels <7 vs $1200 brand new for 8+
12:18:24
BlueyHealer:
basses, no. Huawei, Xiaomi, etc. So whole those are indeed bad, Pixel is not "most affordable" by any means. I think it only gets below $200 when secondhand or very old.
12:18:55
BlueyHealer:
$1200 for some does not mean $500 isn't also egregious. I am by no means poor yet wouldn't be able to afford that for a PHONE.
12:19:10
basses:matrix.org:
pixel gets 7 years of support and huge offers, name a brand like that
12:19:22
BlueyHealer:
In the store I bought mine in, 8s are now ~300>
12:19:52
BlueyHealer:
basses, you were not referring to that, you were referring to "most affordable" which is not true in any dimension.
12:20:09
basses:matrix.org:
long-term, yes
12:20:24
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
It might be most affordable of the non-chinese phones
12:20:36
BlueyHealer:
Again not really.
12:20:38
basses:matrix.org:
yes thats what I said
12:20:48
BlueyHealer:
basses, how so longterm? Longterm better yes, cheaper? No.
12:20:48
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Non-chinese high end* phones
12:21:28
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, that's the point! I'm just pained that GOS is targeting high-end while such a product is most needed by average. It's like making a soup kitchen only for upper middle class.
12:21:38
basses:matrix.org:
every year passes you dont need to buy a newer device because your device is EOL and apps not working
12:21:59
BlueyHealer:
Liek, I'm not poor, I'm average! Yet Pixels by default are out of reach!
12:22:17
basses:matrix.org:
chinese brands 4 year max and you have to buy a new one if you dont like malware on your device even it still works as new
12:22:34
BlueyHealer:
basses, most people don't do that anyway. People usually use their devices EOL for most of their lifetime.
12:22:43
basses:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: they said in their tweets that hardware security is expensive
12:22:44
BlueyHealer:
That's at least what I usually see around me.
12:23:09
BlueyHealer:
So yeah, not the best. I was just referring to the argument of "cheapest".
12:24:00
BlueyHealer:
basses, like yeah, I get why it can be like this. That's why the questions I posted earlier are really pressing. Meaning whether GOS would be accessible to average-income, not just the rich.
12:25:54
basses:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: you can opt-in installments
12:26:07
BlueyHealer:
...but at the end you'd still pay the same sum
12:26:19
basses:matrix.org:
yeah
12:26:29
BlueyHealer:
So no this doesn't count, that's still the egregious price lost. Plus even more potentially
12:27:17
basses:matrix.org:
these companies still buy parts from other manufactures os it is hard to keep costs down
12:27:24
BlueyHealer:
I want to ask that but really don't want to get a Mastodon account... May register later.
12:29:27
BlueyHealer:
But yeah, dropping in price is hard to predict, mostly just wondering about compatibility with other devices from the same OEM (like, maybe the modifications made are not exclusive to the ones with GOS preinstalled?) and whether the bootloader is unlockable (because I fear they may stop caring about that once the right OS is on).
12:37:30
basses:matrix.org:
You will know when the partner announce it themselves soon, you can see the pattern in how pricing and deals usually goes
12:37:54
basses:matrix.org:
it will be a subset of their devices so not all of them
12:38:39
basses:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XwBStDcEJglGmHgwEMvNIuTb.png (clipboard.png)
12:38:40
basses:matrix.org:
interesting tag
12:42:06
imprevisto:matrix.org:
BlueyHealer: oh yeah I see you are using 40 y.o. chat tech, sorry
12:43:54
Cindy:
40 year old chat tech that still works
12:44:12
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: they target Pixels because they have high standards of security
12:44:25
Cindy:
your run-of-the-mill low-end chinese phones have garbage security
12:44:38
imprevisto:matrix.org:
I don't hate on IRC
12:44:49
Cindy:
like even the ARM TrustZone implementation on them is garbage
12:44:55
nioc:
basses - rando as always thx for the news feed :)
12:45:03
Cindy:
that's what pirates crack DRM through these cheap devices
12:45:29
Cindy:
because they have really low hardware security
12:50:16
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, yeah, I understand why they target Pixels, they explain that on theit website.
12:51:27
BlueyHealer:
imprevisto, 40yo chat tech doesn't bloat up server storage without proper cleanup tools like Matrix does))
12:51:45
Cindy:
there should be more OEMs that support the kind of shit GrapheneOS needs
12:51:53
BlueyHealer:
yes
12:51:58
Cindy:
but most of them don't give a shit about security
12:52:02
Cindy:
they only care about cameras
12:52:24
BlueyHealer:
Thus, my concern is less the initial price and more whether it would become affordable with time.
12:52:26
Cindy:
or copying apple
12:53:02
BlueyHealer:
(or, just as much - accessible, because the reseller at my next-door mall may not bother ordering the niche phone)
12:53:27
Cindy:
i found a chinese phone with like 3 rear cameras (like apple's iphones)
12:53:30
Cindy:
but here's the thing
12:53:33
Cindy:
2 of them were fake
12:53:41
Cindy:
it only had one camera
12:53:51
Cindy:
the others were just plastic
12:55:38
imprevisto:matrix.org:
ohkay bluey
12:57:10
imprevisto:matrix.org:
You seem informed enough to understand the tradeoffs. but when I link matrix rooms it's because I'm in a matrix room and other users are too
12:57:33
imprevisto:matrix.org:
if graphene has an irc room go ahead and post that
12:57:53
imprevisto:matrix.org:
and I'll say that sir is an irc link
12:58:00
imprevisto:matrix.org:
would you like a potato
12:59:29
Cindy:
grapheneOS has a IRC channel here
12:59:30
Cindy:
but it's "closed"
12:59:33
BlueyHealer:
Yeah I understand it's just a bit amusing
12:59:39
Cindy:
DataHoarder: it's your time to shine!
12:59:45
Cindy:
give us the bridge to their matrix there
12:59:45
imprevisto:matrix.org:
irc is based, like a potato, old reliable
13:00:40
imprevisto:matrix.org:
i don't need a bridge, but I'll attach a protocol-compliant emoji to this message so you can get it ;)
13:01:30
imprevisto:matrix.org:
i thought irc was great, i think it's cool some keep it going, find use in it, don't think I hate on it
13:01:49
Cindy:
i use matrix too btw
13:01:56
Cindy:
but i open IRC up more
13:02:00
imprevisto:matrix.org:
you all are just like C64 compliant or something
13:02:01
Cindy:
because matrix feels sluggish and garbage to use
13:02:11
imprevisto:matrix.org:
Amiga compliant
13:02:28
Cindy:
whats wrong with that :P
13:02:29
imprevisto:matrix.org:
matrix has its problems and sucks
13:02:45
imprevisto:matrix.org:
but it has some good sides and shines too
13:02:50
Cindy:
IRC is a standard
13:03:26
imprevisto:matrix.org:
tyrannosaurus rex was a standard tho
13:03:53
Cindy:
matrix felt like garbage to use for me
13:04:02
Cindy:
whenever i'd scroll up just a tiny bit
13:04:07
Cindy:
i scroll back to world war I
13:04:09
imprevisto:matrix.org:
it's amazing how we still need better messengers
13:04:20
Cindy:
or prehistoric era messages
13:04:21
imprevisto:matrix.org:
guess it's a hard problem
13:04:43
imprevisto:matrix.org:
matrix sucks, irc is great
13:04:45
imprevisto:matrix.org:
it's why I use matrix
13:04:51
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, for Matrix, I'd want my own homeserver, and it has storage issues, so I want to use other options if full alternatives are available.
13:04:52
imprevisto:matrix.org:
XD
13:05:07
imprevisto:matrix.org:
yeah self hosting is hard
13:05:29
Cindy:
IRC is a RFC standard, for real
13:05:44
BlueyHealer:
And I don't really want to be dealing with other homeservers. Well, I did register on IRC, but that's not an outright federated thing.
13:05:53
Cindy:
and XMPP is also a protocol that is pretty close to matrix and is also a RFC standard
13:06:22
BlueyHealer:
Like, matrix dot org, to my knowledge, would have age verification eventually, so a third-party server can have all sorts of surprises.
13:07:09
Cindy:
i use standardized protocols because those tend to live much much longe
13:07:10
Cindy:
longer*
13:07:31
imprevisto:matrix.org:
totally respectable
13:07:34
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, yeah. Seen some comments about how janky it is under the hood though (like not having message IDs - that would explain why you can only redact the last one). But tbh in daily use I don't see that. Still, Matrix doesn't seem like a good enough improvement.
13:08:03
BlueyHealer:
But yeah, happy that at least Matrix has some traction.
13:08:13
Cindy:
you can only edit the last message
13:08:33
imprevisto:matrix.org:
001 :[A * 552][JMP ESP address][NOP sled][Shellcode]
13:09:43
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: XMPP does have message IDs now
13:09:49
Cindy:
with XEP-0359
13:10:06
Cindy:
and it's been used by the message moderation XEP (XEP-0425) to basically delete any messages in the room
13:10:21
Cindy:
but this depends on your client :P
13:10:36
Cindy:
reactions also use the message IDs
13:11:50
basses:matrix.org:
nioc: wlc nioc
13:12:10
BlueyHealer:
Oh, it does? Nice, haven't seen that!
13:12:17
basses:matrix.org:
and batteries > <Cindy> they only care about cameras
13:12:26
basses:matrix.org:
which tbh I really care more about camera
13:12:27
Cindy:
these XEPs have fallbacks for older clients that don't support it
13:12:46
Cindy:
like for reactions, it'll reply-quote to the message with the reaction emoji
13:12:51
BlueyHealer:
Weirdly enough, mine supports reactions on arbitrary messages but not editing.
13:13:22
BlueyHealer:
basses, the camera on mine was such a massive upgrade from the old $100 phone!
13:13:52
Cindy:
XMPP is better than Matrix, fight me
13:14:09
imprevisto:matrix.org:
:)
13:14:17
basses:matrix.org:
chinese brands are trying their best to enter western and global markets, security is least of their concerns as in reality most people dont care about security
13:14:39
imprevisto:matrix.org:
XMPP has superior emacs bindings
13:14:42
Cindy:
i just installed a XMPP server
13:14:50
Cindy:
holy shit is my drive soooo empty
13:15:00
Cindy:
it's so empty that i got space for even more stuff
13:15:11
basses:matrix.org:
Cindy: selfhost
13:15:11
Cindy:
isn't that awful
13:15:19
imprevisto:matrix.org:
sorry, graphene is a good topic
13:15:33
BlueyHealer:
basses, yeah, most people do. I used not to just a few years ago! Hell, Windows has conditioned a lot of people that "Updates bad".
13:15:51
BlueyHealer:
I have legit seen people happy to not get more updates after Win 10 EOL :/
13:15:59
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: because windows handled updates poorly
13:16:05
BlueyHealer:
exactly
13:16:07
Cindy:
it always required you to reboot after any update
13:16:08
basses:matrix.org:
I see people still using win7
13:16:16
Cindy:
even when it doesn't involve the OS
13:16:26
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, I see that in businesses
13:16:32
Cindy:
and at shutdown, it would spend 30 minutes or more installing the update
13:16:55
Cindy:
when you really desperately just want to shut it down already
13:16:56
basses:matrix.org:
on linux people pray for more updates, as updates are actually useful unlike on proprietary OS which break a lot of stuff
13:17:10
Cindy:
in linux, you can literally update the kernel without rebooting
13:17:15
Cindy:
and it'll take effect on the next boot
13:17:20
Cindy:
without any delay on shutdown
13:17:45
Cindy:
windows has to make you reboot to actually update
13:18:45
basses:matrix.org:
it actually updates in background and reboots while you are working on something
13:26:57
BlueyHealer:
basses, main point was being not invasive.
13:27:36
BlueyHealer:
Also the fact that using devices EOL is so normalized by, again, phones, because most have such short support.
13:29:50
Cindy:
most EOL after a couple years lol
13:29:59
Cindy:
no long-term support
13:31:04
basses:matrix.org:
I think app was first to have 7 years of support?
13:31:08
basses:matrix.org:
apple*
13:32:02
BlueyHealer:
Yeah but they're the outlier, and a luxury phone anyway.
13:32:53
basses:matrix.org:
back then Apple were the only sane choice
13:35:31
BlueyHealer:
They were hyper-expensive even then, so no, no way I would've owned one, same for a lot of people around.
13:37:26
BlueyHealer:
Like, even with the security - it just wouldn't be viable. Plus, my mom did end up getting one (as a gift, long story) and didn't like the experience - especially after losing the Apple account and not being able to do anything.
13:38:26
BlueyHealer:
Like, I get security but a phone this expensive just isn't realistic for most people
13:39:19
BlueyHealer:
Like, I am already used to Westerners being an order of magnitude richer but still not used to judging everyone else by this metric.
13:46:30
imprevisto:matrix.org:
I think Bluey makes good points.
13:47:08
imprevisto:matrix.org:
privacy unfortunately is and will continue to be a luxury good
13:47:10
Cindy:
apple is heavily walled off
13:47:30
imprevisto:matrix.org:
however, we should all work to support projects that minimize or erode this situation
13:47:51
Cindy:
and they really really try their best to not let you run things that aren't apple-approved
13:48:42
imprevisto:matrix.org:
full general computing is the only end. anything standing in the way is to be shamed
13:49:07
imprevisto:matrix.org:
which is to say apple is anti-freedom, obviously
13:49:08
BlueyHealer:
impervisto, well, not really - rather, some parts of it. Like, before GOS, I just had to treat my phone as "public", and do everything on the laptop since Linux can go on anything.
13:49:28
basses:matrix.org:
apple is not as private > <@imprevisto:matrix.org> privacy unfortunately is and will continue to be a luxury good
13:49:32
Cindy:
they even disable JIT so you can't run code that isn't approved by apple either
13:49:34
BlueyHealer:
And GOS would only be "luxury" if Pixels didn't decrease in price this much, even though they did still end up expensive.
13:50:03
imprevisto:matrix.org:
right, it's why i thing GOS is the way to go, at least for now
13:50:04
BlueyHealer:
basses, I think he was referring to ioverall discussion and not apple.
13:50:15
imprevisto:matrix.org:
with apple there's no future
13:50:41
Cindy:
even the browsers in apple are just skins of safari
13:50:43
BlueyHealer:
Cindy, btw I know people why run "sideloaded" apps by buying certs. That's too complicated for my smol brain tho, I don't want to bother this much for Youtube.
13:51:07
imprevisto:matrix.org:
not fighting you, but even the term 'sideloading' needs to be changed
13:51:14
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: still won't get you JIT unless you tether a mac to your phone
13:51:21
Cindy:
to trick the phone into running in "debugger mode"
13:51:22
imprevisto:matrix.org:
to 'general computation ability on bullshit locked down devices'
13:51:32
Cindy:
i can do JIT for free on grapheneOS
13:51:49
Cindy:
JIT really really matters for modern emulation
13:52:41
imprevisto:matrix.org:
maybe mainstream apps need to be called 'authoritarian apps' and sideloaded need to be called 'freedom apps'
13:53:09
Cindy:
i know a person who has an iphone, and has to remember to turn on their mac and run the debugger on it
13:53:13
Cindy:
to play DS games at 60 fps
13:53:28
Cindy:
and if his phone ever disconnects from the same network as the mac or whatever shit happens
13:53:37
Cindy:
the app immediately crashes, and he only gets 1 frame per century
13:53:54
imprevisto:matrix.org:
'oligarchy apps' -> 'freedom apps'
13:53:59
Cindy:
i feel like that was pretty fucking funny
13:54:01
imprevisto:matrix.org:
oligarchy is kind of a big word tho
13:54:15
imprevisto:matrix.org:
1fpc is funny
13:54:39
Cindy:
imagine having to remember to turn your mac on to get better emulation performance on your phone
13:54:43
BlueyHealer:
<imprevisto:matrix.org> not fighting you, but even the term 'sideloading' needs to be changed <- Yeah 100%, I was uncomfortable using it too but I felt like it's okay with Apple specifically.
13:54:45
Cindy:
that shouldn't make sense
13:55:13
imprevisto:matrix.org:
bluey yeah I am getting an idea you know what you're talking about :)
13:56:10
imprevisto:matrix.org:
Cindy: not sure how quoting works on irc, sorry guys - this is insanity, only in apple ecosystem would shit like that be real
13:56:37
imprevisto:matrix.org:
maybe they could sell like 6 different dongles to go with each port to 'solve' this 'problem' of their creation
13:56:45
imprevisto:matrix.org:
each dongle will only be usable for like 1 year
13:56:49
BlueyHealer:
I avoid this term on android because F-Droid and Obtainium can't be "side" because they're the main sources of apps for me/
13:57:05
imprevisto:matrix.org:
and only work with the specific phone and airbook model
13:57:14
BlueyHealer:
Cindy | imagine having to remember to turn your mac on to get better emulation performance on your phone <- Imagine HAVING a Mac which costs even more than the phone
13:57:19
Cindy:
it was the dumbest shit i've heard
13:57:22
basses:matrix.org:
they get quotes I think > <@imprevisto:matrix.org> not sure how quoting works on irc, sorry guys - this is insanity, only in apple ecosystem would shit like that be real
13:57:29
Cindy:
yeah we do
13:57:31
imprevisto:matrix.org:
that will cost $150 and you'll have to go meet with a 'genius' in a retail store to get one
13:57:48
imprevisto:matrix.org:
fucking apple
13:58:10
BlueyHealer:
basses, yeah, we get quotes like this:
13:58:16
Cindy:
the only reason apple's doing this is because god forbid you run something apple hasn't approved
13:58:17
BlueyHealer:
br-m | <basses:matrix.org> they get quotes I think > <@imprevisto:matrix.org> not sure how...
13:58:29
Cindy:
even dynamically-generated code
13:58:36
Cindy:
even if it's for performance
13:58:46
BlueyHealer:
Didn't know about JIT limitations, to be honest.
13:58:57
Cindy:
no, you have to trick the phone into "debugging" the app
13:59:00
Cindy:
to give it JIT privileges
13:59:21
Cindy:
i think you need a developer license
13:59:47
imprevisto:matrix.org:
woz would be so ashamed
14:00:23
Cindy:
BlueyHealer: yes, which severely limits emulation
14:00:53
imprevisto:matrix.org:
i had a small interaction with an apple thing a friend was struggling with recently, where one of their devices used a proprietary database
14:00:57
Cindy:
you're limited to playing the very old or weak consoles
14:01:04
imprevisto:matrix.org:
proprietary database
14:01:07
Cindy:
sega genesis/SNES, GBA, whatever
14:01:22
Cindy:
not even N64 or newer than that without some major FPS limits (due to the JIT restriction)
14:01:33
imprevisto:matrix.org:
how... anti-user? unnecessary? devious? all of the above?
14:01:43
Cindy:
proprietary database? lol
14:01:49
Cindy:
sounds so Apple
14:01:56
imprevisto:matrix.org:
i know right..
14:01:59
Cindy:
"no, only we are allowed to fix this. fuck you"
14:02:06
imprevisto:matrix.org:
feels good to vent
14:02:14
BlueyHealer:
Unrelated but I find it funny how if I were to play Nintendo games, the only console I'd consider is the Steamdeck.
14:02:16
imprevisto:matrix.org:
thanks yes yes i feel seen
14:02:51
Cindy:
on GOS, i can give retroarch JIT privileges from the settings app
14:03:01
Cindy:
and then i can play DS games much better than iphones can
14:03:12
Cindy:
or PS2 even
14:03:29
imprevisto:matrix.org:
Something like GOS has a future because even if the only things they work on now are expensive there is a path forward
14:03:57
imprevisto:matrix.org:
so I support that
14:05:25
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, better like this than in no way at all. I just wonder if there's hope that prices could go down, like, 1-2 years after the release.
14:06:29
BlueyHealer:
Also this addresses the problem of access to the source code.
14:06:50
BlueyHealer:
I'm surprised the OEM would be chill with them releasing the code, though.
14:07:11
imprevisto:matrix.org:
+1 on all that Bluey
14:07:54
Cindy:
i don't think they care as long as they can make up for it with much more sales
14:09:50
BlueyHealer:
Accessibility is a huge issue too - like, I can't order directly, so main option would be local resellers. I wonder if they'd carry those.
14:10:04
BlueyHealer:
(There are forwarding services but never used them)
14:58:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Why so much people are mad about the sideloading word?
14:58:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Download (from outside to your device)
14:58:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Upload (from your device to outside)
14:58:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Sideload (from your device to your device).[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/-8qQgt4KVHJFYWJP ]
14:59:59
ravfx:xmr.mx:
The word has been popularised with phones but I think its from the 70's or early 80's (smartphone did not exist)
15:00:26
BlueyHealer:
Because of how the term is being used? If you're installing from a Git repo or from F-Droid, that's "download". And Play Market is never referred to as "sideload" either.
15:00:52
BlueyHealer:
I think the "correct" use on phones is considered installation via ADB.
15:01:46
ravfx:xmr.mx:
BlueyHealer: When you use a store, you are downloading from internet
15:01:46
ravfx:xmr.mx:
When you use adb, you are sideloading (local device to device transfer)
15:02:54
ravfx:xmr.mx:
You downloaded the apk on your pc
15:02:54
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Then you sideloaded the application from your pc to your phone
15:03:30
BlueyHealer:
yeah exactly
15:03:34
basses:matrix.org:
airdrop/quickshare is sideloading?
15:03:41
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@basses:matrix.org: Yes
15:03:50
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Local to local is sideloading
15:04:13
BlueyHealer:
I mean that people are mad about "sideloading" ubeing used to downloading from outside of the default store. TBH I also used it in this way about Apple.
15:04:39
BlueyHealer:
Like, Obtainium and D-Droid is "downloading".
15:05:42
ravfx:xmr.mx:
BlueyHealer: Yeah, ita because the way they do it is actually sideloading (from a device to another with adb).
15:05:42
ravfx:xmr.mx:
If you download an apk and just install it directly (like when you need to enable other sources in the setting), then thats downloading
15:09:07
BlueyHealer:
Yeah, exactly - and people take issue with the term being used to describe *that*.
15:09:58
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yeah, I understand. And also they never saw the word being used before
15:10:56
BlueyHealer:
BTW as foir streaming from a server to a TV - unrelated, but I wouldn't opt for that, because a) my TV has no internet capabilities on its own and b) the TV box is the Raspberry Pi I'd host any server on so what's the point in client-server instead of a local player anyway XD
15:12:16
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Oh yeah lol
15:12:16
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I dont even have a TV
15:13:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Last tv I had...
15:13:28
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I was streaming the media from the linux smb share to my PS2 to play them.
15:14:15
ravfx:xmr.mx:
So yeah, its more than a decade ago
15:14:52
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Probably two decades... Fk i'm old
15:15:29
BlueyHealer:
I had one for a while but only recently got a TV box for it so that it can do something besides air TV. That's so nice! I don't think I'd spend big money on one if I didn't have it, but this one I just ended up with refurbished for cheap.
15:15:47
BlueyHealer:
Very happy that I have one, so much nicer to watch long essays on!
15:15:55
basses:matrix.org:
TVs nowadays are sold for dirt cheap, no wonder why > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh yeah lol
15:16:31
basses:matrix.org:
also because of ads they have, "smart TV"
15:17:02
ravfx:xmr.mx:
Yeah, not interrested anymore.
15:17:02
ravfx:xmr.mx:
I have a lot of computer monitors anyway
15:18:38
BlueyHealer:
Mine is small, comparable in size to a monitor , so that would've been an option indeed! When it comes to big TVs though (like those I would't have space for) - not so much.
15:20:06
BlueyHealer:
Like, I don't think they make it in those sizes, and the biggest ones are much more expensive.
15:20:33
basses:matrix.org:
https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2026/01/17/2
15:20:33
basses:matrix.org:
> I am writing to inform the community that the official fix provided by the Go security team is critically flawed and causes significant regressions in the networking ecosystem (notably breaking quic-go).
17:44:36
321bob321:
Ownd
18:02:03
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
My tv IS my computer monitor > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh yeah lol
23:36:39
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
local server to your tv is not sideloading per your definitions, sideloading would be tv to tv. > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> Why so much people are mad about the sideloading word?
23:40:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
if you mean any of your devices to any of your other devices, there is absolutely no distinction between uploading/sideloading or downloading/sideloading. your tv doesn't know or care whether that device is yours or in a data center on the other side of the world
23:43:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@glowingexplorer:matrix.org: device to device
23:43:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
your server is a device, as you tv
23:44:12
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
so it would appear the term confuses people because it does not fit into the upload/download paradigm, which have very clear easy to understand meanings
23:44:15
ravfx:xmr.mx:
your PC is a device
23:44:15
ravfx:xmr.mx:
your phone is a device
23:44:38
ravfx:xmr.mx:
so you can plug youor phone on your PC and sideload an apk to your phone ;)
23:45:09
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
@ravfx:xmr.mx: thats just putting another name on downloading/uploading there is no technical difference.
23:45:21
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@glowingexplorer:matrix.org: yeah, it's just side instead of up or down.
23:45:21
ravfx:xmr.mx:
most people did not use that before they got phones
23:46:45
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
when we put shit onto a usb stick we are sideloading it, evidently
23:47:07
guest880:matrix.org:
is Trezor wallet still a good way to store Crypto?
23:47:19
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@glowingexplorer:matrix.org: That does not count I think, it's not a self contained device (like a phone, pc, tc, etc, etc)
23:47:57
ravfx:xmr.mx:
@guest880:matrix.org: Assuming you don't send your seed phrase to random emailing you as "trezor support" or something like that, yes
23:48:02
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
@ravfx:xmr.mx: there it is, i knew i knew what it was. the context is apps. it's app transfer.
23:48:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
app transfer
23:48:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
data transfer
23:48:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
os image transfer...
23:48:49
ravfx:xmr.mx:
at the end is data transfer
23:49:02
ravfx:xmr.mx:
it's just data that you have locally
23:49:51
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
@ravfx:xmr.mx: but it has to be a self contained device. you can send a text file but its only side loading if its from iphone to iphone if its a usb stick it does not count. (and you ask why it confuses people)
23:51:38
guest880:matrix.org:
@ravfx:xmr.mx: Ah I see, when reading more about it though, It seems that the secret 20-24 phrase is the most important thing really, because if the cold wallet device gets broken or stolen that's the only way to restore it I guess?
23:54:57
glowingexplorer:matrix.org:
@guest880:matrix.org: think of the seed phrase like the money itself. you protect it exactly as you would cash. because that's what it is.
23:59:11
guest880:matrix.org:
@glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Ahh I see, so with the Trezor wallet, you are really just paying for extra security for you Seed phrase, compared to it just being on a Hot wallet?