Monero logs

00:00:03 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Show me a single readme that he wrote with AI assistance

00:00:20 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I just told you to observe the pattern

00:00:20 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: If he did, who cares. BUT HE DIDNT

00:00:25 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: So bro is just lying

00:00:28 Cindy__: i literally cannot believe that there are people here who will not be able to write a single line of code at gunpoint

00:00:34 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: PATTERN OF WHAT? FORKING REPOS?>

00:00:38 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/oecHoisITNbHnnIcKCrkbshq.png (1000161820.png)

00:00:39 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: This 1

00:00:40 Cindy__: and who don't know how to fucking use git, but still use AI to write their code

00:00:49 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: READ THE FUCKIJG COMMIT HISTORY

00:00:51 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I can bet 100 dollar

00:01:03 Cindy__: bikrambiswas: give me your 100 dollars then

00:01:08 Cindy__: easy profit

00:01:30 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: That read me file created by AI

00:01:30 Cindy__: there is literally 0 AI in that readme

00:01:37 Cindy__: what part of it is AI

00:01:47 Cindy__: i've read many AI-generated READMEs, this doesn't look like one

00:01:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/MWoqBTanffvBmIyuXEvJJLUX.png (Screenshot_20260118-000217.png)

00:01:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/szZqywjltyvpapjIEuPMduVv.png (Screenshot_20260118-000235.png)

00:02:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/RdkWSvHdhkXNDbItVeeXNpKw.png (Screenshot_20260118-000303.png)

00:02:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: HE DIDNT WRITE THE FUCKING README

00:02:53 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: His 2 commits to that readme are fucking corrections

00:03:01 Cindy__: bikrambiswas: stop dragging people down to your level to justify your over-usage of AI

00:03:27 Cindy__: or somehow do some mental gymnastics to prove that mrcyjanek is using AI

00:03:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Are you willing to bet that mrcyjanek authored the readme?

00:03:55 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Sorry wrong screenshot

00:04:13 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pvzORAxHqhVoyUSikaRYLwAa.png (1000161907.png)

00:04:59 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: thank you. what 'slop' means is now clear as a bell to me. it's this bad ai you're referring to.. > <Cindy__> glowingexplorer: i don't care if someone's using AI as long as it's not horribly bad

00:05:00 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: This is LLM used Writing

00:05:30 Cindy__: glowingexplorer: no i mean having no idea what you're doing and using AI in crappy ways

00:05:37 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: This is generated by LLM

00:06:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Youre a retard

00:06:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/jwapi/commit/5f9c481a35969929b6f828b02a6bcc09dfb45adb

00:06:29 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy__: I do use AI ..did I ever say ..I didn't ??

00:06:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You think this was LLM? 5 years ago?

00:06:51 Cindy__: ofrnxmr: be easier on them, they don't know how to use git blame

00:06:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He was using LLM before covid?

00:07:25 Cindy__: i myself do use AI, it's not the generative kind

00:07:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy__: Im not even using git blame, this is available with a "view history" button in the mobile app. Pathetic attempts to undermine the hard work done by hard working devs

00:07:52 Cindy__: most times i feel like people who use LLMs don't know whatever shit they're prompting the AI about

00:08:00 Cindy__: like that slowbeardigger

00:08:07 Cindy__: they just prompt, they do no thinking

00:08:14 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org is this AI: https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/issues/387

00:08:43 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: what is the outrage, it's that he lied about using AI? someone please explain why pitchforks are out, what did this guy do wrong?

00:09:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: is this AI? https://github.com/plowsof/check-monero-seed-nodes/blob/main/readme.md

00:09:13 Cindy__: he made a bunch of garbage low-effort PRs to multiple projects

00:09:21 Cindy__: most of which have been closed

00:09:32 Cindy__: they were a giant waste of maintainers' time

00:09:56 Cindy__: he calls this his "sidegig"

00:10:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: I don't know why bikram decided to wake up with cyjan's dick in his mouth, but he did

00:10:27 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: So what ?? In 2021 ... People used LLM shit via API ..Only the developer knows that thing. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Youre a retard

00:10:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ bb ^

00:10:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ bb ^

00:10:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: bad but just good enough to spend time on and so they wasted a bunch of time > <Cindy__> he made a bunch of garbage low-effort PRs to multiple projects

00:11:05 Cindy__: are you baiting?

00:11:19 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i'm confirming. if that's the case, i would agree that's shitty

00:11:43 Cindy__: yes, "good enough" as they were hollow

00:11:54 Cindy__: just like the libcurl AI slop spam

00:11:55 gucci999:matrix.org: > most times i feel like people who use LLMs don't know whatever shit they're prompting the AI about > <Cindy__> most times i feel like people who use LLMs don't know whatever shit they're prompting the AI about

00:11:55 gucci999:matrix.org: That usually isn't an issue because those people don't work on critical projects typically just single HTML pages or simple scripts. Software engineers at big tech do use AI extensively, but differently. They follow an architectural plan, understand requirements and trade-offs, and possess the skills to debug issues. As context and project importance grow, vibe coding becomes less effective

00:12:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: its shitty because its on 10 different repos, so while 1 maintainer might know they are trash, the other 9 have to waste their time

00:12:16 Cindy__: ^

00:13:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Unless the submissions are OBVIOUSLY slop, they are always given the benefit of the doubt and there are potentially 2-5 different people that look at it

00:13:29 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: If I used the GitHub Capilot for generating text ..What you gonna say ..AI slop ?

00:13:33 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Often if i see it, i'll leave a thumb down on the submission, signalling the maintainers that its trash

00:14:08 Cindy__: these people do it for the bounties

00:14:15 Cindy__: they think they can take shortcuts to get that money

00:14:27 Cindy__: so they're willing to generate slop PRs just for the chance

00:15:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2583#issuecomment-3708318544

00:16:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Heres an example of a PR that was almost good, but had too many retarded mistakes to not he AI

00:16:14 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Be*

00:16:49 Cindy__: it's literally the same motive as the libcurl AI slop security reports, they are doing it for the chance that the maintainer might be fucking stupid enough to accept it and give the money for it

00:17:28 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: But I don't give a shit about Bounty..And also I am not interested in engaging in a Bounty war between 2 Groups...LLM & Bully...I just want to end this conversation..Stop tagging me . My notification is not letting me sleep

00:17:51 Cindy__: ofrnxmr: the fact that he closed his own PR when you questioned him about his AI usage

00:18:03 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: cool, keep cyjans name out of your mouth

00:18:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy__: Right? Lol

00:18:12 Cindy__: he was not willing to admit it lol

00:18:18 Cindy__: pussied out

00:18:24 Cindy__: because it would look bad to him

00:18:28 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Could have modified the PR to be correct, but closed it instead

00:18:53 Cindy__: a lot of his PRs are closed

00:18:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I didnt know for sure that it was AI, and i honestly felt bad for a second about the way i asked "Please tell me this was authored by AI?"

00:18:58 Cindy__: not a single one has been merged

00:19:12 Cindy__: this guy thinks he'll go somewhere with all this slop

00:19:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 1. Too new

00:19:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 2. Icon huge

00:19:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 3. It's not local sync

00:19:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 4. If it was local, it still breaks alphabetical order

00:19:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 5. The name is wrong[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/koTkv90KT0dSb0Fl ]

00:20:08 Cindy__: ofrnxmr: you can look at his twitter and see how proud he is of the fact that he uses AI too much

00:20:22 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Like, the wallet is called "Skylight Wallet", but randomly called "Skylight" in the code

00:20:37 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Deal 🤝 > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> cool, keep cyjans name out of your mouth

00:20:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The icon big enough to be a 4k wallpaper (exaggeration)

00:21:15 Cindy__: https://xcancel.com/SlowBearDigger/status/2011878182887280973

00:21:19 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Listing under local sync, and in almost-alphabetical order

00:21:29 Cindy__: this guy is literally hooked on the AI drug

00:21:37 Cindy__: without it, he won't be able to make any code

00:21:40 Cindy__: and i mean, ANY code

00:22:53 Cindy__: "p-please, pay for my claude subscription. i'll suck your dick for it please"

00:26:22 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: One of the funniest submissions ibcluded prompts to make 100k and buy copilot pro or something

00:26:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Idk if that was a prompt, or if the AI was sentient, or if it was advertising built into the AI

00:27:06 Cindy__: lol

00:27:11 Cindy__: it might be advertising

00:27:46 Cindy__: i don't know who can be proud of the fact that they outsourced their intelligence to a black-box slop machine with a subscription attached to it

00:27:58 Cindy__: that sounds like something out of black mirror

00:33:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ### Estimated Bounty Values by Category

00:33:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: CategoryTypical RangeEffortROIBug fixes50-500 XMR1-3 days🔥Features500-2,000 XMR1-2 weeks🔥🔥Major features2,000-5,000 XMR3-8 weeks🔥🔥🔥Security research1,000-10,000 XMR2-12 weeks🔥🔥🔥

00:34:35 Cindy__: what is this

00:34:44 Cindy__: 10,000 XMR?

00:34:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ### Phase 3: Upgrade Copilot- Use funds for: - Copilot Pro subscription

00:35:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy__: Hallucination

00:35:24 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: * Total earned: 3,000+ XMR ($60,000+)

00:35:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: "3000xmr = 60k usd" lol

00:36:03 Cindy__: that's a immediate red flag

00:36:27 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: the file is called BOUNTY_ACTION_PLAN.md

00:37:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: "Status: Build ready, testing next

00:37:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Confidence: 95% - Implementation is solid"

00:37:40 Cindy__: link me to it

00:37:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cant trust these hoes

00:37:42 Cindy__: i wanna read it lol

00:38:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Oh whoops, didnt send the link

00:38:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4513

00:39:40 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/commit/eff6915b4b3285240a731a1d5f6e639f8f6592a8

00:40:14 Cindy__: "upgrade copilot" LOOOOOOL

00:41:28 Cindy__: i like how they completely wiped their github account

00:41:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Bro either got the ad-supported version, or was bribing copilot

00:42:13 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy__: I think github deleted it

00:42:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/ELwOgeaQHyiyNseaCaUkyxKR.png (Screenshot_20260118-004323.png)

00:43:10 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: These were all opened at the same time from different accounts

00:43:25 Cindy__: oh yeah

00:43:36 Cindy__: it was the AI spambots

00:43:43 Cindy__: that makes a lot of sense

00:43:59 ravfx:xmr.mx: Lol, dont tell me he posted that bounties list by mistake lol

00:44:05 Cindy__: i actually looked up the username behind the PR, they had a couple repos (excluding monero fork) before they got wiped

00:44:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yeah

00:44:24 Cindy__: so i'm betting that they had a list of compromised github accounts

00:44:33 Cindy__: and used them as cannon fodder for slop PR spam

00:45:53 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4536 860 files changed

00:46:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4445 194 files changed 17k LOC

00:46:57 Cindy__: bro is creating a hard fork in one PR

00:47:29 Cindy__: he literally rebuilt monero from the ground up in one PR

00:47:37 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Lmfao

00:49:20 Cindy__: the PR: https://c.tenor.com/-22v77lrJsIAAAAM/family-guy-building.gif

00:49:32 Cindy__: how do you change that much like holy shit

00:52:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy__: Ask an ai and submit the resuly

00:52:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Be sure to include buikd artifacts as well

00:54:33 nioc: haven't u guys figured out wut to do with ai yet?

00:54:41 nioc: pump da price

00:54:49 nioc: that would be useful

00:55:18 Cindy__: i had an idea

00:55:24 Cindy__: why don't we just spread misinformation on reddit

00:55:34 Cindy__: for a few months

00:55:42 Cindy__: and then watch the LLMs turn dumb as fuck

00:55:48 nioc: :D

01:01:04 ofrnxmr: 🔥 :D

01:01:22 torir:matrix.org: We should add a length limit to pull requests, add a bot that autoreplies to too large pull requests asking the submitter to make it smaller, and watch people struggle to make their LLMs output smaller commits. Then if people complain, we can say that humans have no trouble producing small PRs, maybe something is wrong with their LLM.

01:01:39 torir:matrix.org: Easier then arguing about the merits of AI-generated code, just point to an easy-to-measure metric.

01:04:13 ofrnxmr: We dont argue

01:04:21 ofrnxmr: We just close the PRs and move on

01:04:28 torir:matrix.org: Probably for the best.

01:04:31 Cindy__: how about all the maintainers have a line of communication between each other

01:04:41 Cindy__: and basically tell them about a suspected AI slopist

01:05:01 Cindy__: so that if they can ban them from any or all monero-related projects

01:05:15 Cindy__: less time wasted

01:05:17 ofrnxmr: we all have notifications turned on, and slop usually gets closed in minutes

01:06:11 ofrnxmr: And yeah, we communicate. So like slowbeardigger opened pr on -site, plowsof noticed, i sent him my thoughts, he checked and saw that they forked various other repos

01:06:26 ofrnxmr: And we just waited for those PRs to appear

01:07:26 ofrnxmr: As far as banning, none of us have power to ban across monero-project

01:07:44 Cindy__: nah i mean, all collectively agree to ban the same person from their own repos

01:07:51 ofrnxmr: Only core has control over the org, and bans aren't something we do

01:08:16 Cindy__: this doesn't have to include monero, but it can include the smaller repos

01:08:22 ofrnxmr: Cindy__: Even that, we usually dont have access to the settings of the individual repos either

01:08:28 ofrnxmr: Just merge powers

01:09:36 ofrnxmr: I dont have access to docs settings, plowsof doesnt have access to site settings etc. Once upon a time, erciccione had access to site settings and banned people because he's a snowflake

01:09:44 Cindy__: i know

01:10:05 Cindy__: i meant monero-related projects, not the projects in the monero org

01:10:05 Cindy__: monero-project org*

01:10:07 Cindy__: like monero-c, haveno, etc.

01:10:33 ofrnxmr: yeah, but then again a lot of these slopists use burner accounts

01:10:46 Cindy__: ah true

01:11:06 ofrnxmr: Slowbeardigger is one of the rare ones that use the same account for extended periods of time

01:11:43 ofrnxmr: @ofrnxmr: Funny because people genuinely making accounts end up shadowbanned by github

01:12:05 Cindy__: yeah i got shadowbanned too when i first made my account

01:12:08 Cindy__: it's bullshit

01:12:11 ofrnxmr: But slopists can spam 20 prs, from 20 accounts, at 20k loc each without a problem

01:12:40 ofrnxmr: You'd almost think m$ doesnt like us

01:12:42 Cindy__: i don't think they're making new accounts, otherwise they would have been shadowbanned easily

01:12:53 Cindy__: the accounts were used prior to their slop spam

01:13:02 Cindy__: i think they just use hacked/abandoned accounts

01:13:36 torir:matrix.org: A filter for all PR longer than 1k lines would get 90% of slop instantly with no human interaction, but it sounds like right now it isn't actually being too much of a headache right now.

01:35:20 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > <@gucci999:matrix.org> I'm not even a developer, yet I know that learning and using git is important

01:35:20 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: the great thing about code is that it doesn't give a fuck what you think. there are no gatekeepers, no rules, just logic. if you think i need to know some software to prove how good i am, all i need is to be able to write code. so i'll do that, and you go on arrogantly spouting uninformed views.

01:49:41 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Because nobody is openly using ai. Everyone who is defending it, is producing slop

01:49:41 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i've read this six times and still don't quite understand it. it appears to mean that all good code generated by AI is used and stored in secret and all good coders who use AI deny it and do not tell anyone about it. Therefore all discussion of people who admit to using AI and their code, is by definition of discussion of shitty coders and their slop.

01:55:20 ofrnxmr: > i've read this six times and still don't quite understand it. it appears to mean that all good code generated by AI is used and stored in secret and all good coders who use AI deny it and do not tell anyone about it.

01:55:20 ofrnxmr: close enough

01:55:20 ofrnxmr: > Therefore all discussion of coders who admit to using AI and their code, is by definition a discussion of shitty coders and their slop.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/uKXBwt0KWHRUVjIx ]

01:59:54 ofrnxmr: More accurately, good coders don't vice code. If they do use ai generated code, its usually in bits and pieces or they might use it as a template and refactor or rewrite it.

01:59:54 ofrnxmr: proponents of AI code usually a) vibe code b) copy and paste the majority kf the project c) let AI commit things directly d) dont even review the slop

02:03:57 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i feel like you guys just aren't reading about this stuff in the right places. twitter vibe coding is intense, those guys turned it into a science. extreme generalization going in here. is ai flooding the internet with a lot of shit code? absolutely. that doesn't mean everyone good at it is lying about it and keeping their code a secret.

02:09:07 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: this is more or less like india. they flooded all these php devs for $8 an hour and so the perception among many is the indian devs are trash. but actually many of the best software engineers in the world are indian. google and microsoft ceo's are now indian. so that perception of india is misleading. same with 'slop vibe coders'

02:21:40 nioc: if many are bad and a few are good = all good

02:23:17 nioc: *=all are good

02:26:38 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: nioc: if may are bad and a few are good = all bad?

02:27:09 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: people just slander them all. we learn about this with racism, doing that is bad. and wrong.

02:32:23 nioc: don't think anybody is slandering the ceos

02:33:06 nioc: examples of good ai code?

02:33:42 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: you know what, this is no different than any standard developer war over some technology. thinking about it that makes it much easier to ignore it. this is just vim vs emacs

02:34:20 nioc: yes people have to use ai whether or not it is useful cause the company bought it

02:34:37 torir:matrix.org: > <@glowingexplorer:matrix.org> i feel like you guys just aren't reading about this stuff in the right places. twitter vibe coding is intense, those guys turned it into a science. extreme generalization going in here. is ai flooding the internet with a lot of shit code? absolutely. that doesn't mean everyone good at it is lying about it and keeping their code a secret.

02:34:37 torir:matrix.org: I am a software developer. I have used AI on multiple occasions to code. Never have I used the AI's output without major modifications, unless it was a very trivial piece of code. Several times I used the AI's direction but end up rewriting the code from scratch. Sometimes I gave up on the AI code entirely when the AI couldn't [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/gJzRw90KbjJ5cEkw ]

02:34:37 torir:matrix.org: The problem we are facing now is essentially that people overestimate AI. It doesn't help that tech companies exaggerate claims, and when AI does succeed, people often fail to mention the many failed prompts it took to get to that point. The problem is that people are using AI without reviewing the output and the output is jun [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/gJzRw90KbjJ5cEkw ]

02:36:05 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @torir:matrix.org: if everyone had your context and we could all have the same discussion it would be quite smooth. the problem is it gets reduced to vague words like 'vibe' and 'slop' and its unclear what the fuck anybody even means. like are they attacking you? because it often appears they are.

02:36:05 nioc: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

02:36:44 nioc: was in response to torir

02:37:34 nioc: it seems that the majority of what monero is dealing with is indeed slop

02:39:17 torir:matrix.org: Ask your software developer friends to review the AI pull requests Monero has been dealing with and they'll tell you it's slop. It's spam and it's not worth time giving a detailed review. It's the same as mass-produced spam emails. It's going into the spam folder because it's not worth even looking at.

02:39:31 nioc: some of the reaction may be self preservation but that doesn't change that there is a problem because of the scale

02:39:56 torir:matrix.org: Yeah, just like spam email it becomes a problem due to scale.

02:40:08 torir:matrix.org: AI slop wouldn't be as much of an issue if there weren't so much of it.

02:40:24 pw:xmr.mx: The term 'slop' has been used to define people who don't have a single understanding about writing code, yet use AI written code, to then publish that and state they free-handedly wrote that code and deny using AI

02:40:48 Cindy: ^

02:40:53 torir:matrix.org: And it's frustrating because you can't explain to them why their AI code is bad because they don't understand code enough to know.

02:41:13 nioc: wonders if ai can code in AlgoW

02:41:15 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: that is false. anybody can write slop. i'll do it now tell it to write a facebook clone. in an hour i'll have a pile of slop.

02:41:43 nioc: *AlgolW

02:42:48 torir:matrix.org: The AI slop we've been coding is the equivalent of email spam. At first, you might get emails in your mailbox that seem interesting, but eventually you just filter them all out. Developers can usually tell pretty quickly when someone has no idea the quality of code their LLM produced, and in Monero, we just tell them to please not use AI and move on to the next PR.

02:43:43 torir:matrix.org: @torir:matrix.org: (To clarify: when someone is new to the internet and first gets spam email, they might not understand why other people don't like it. But someone who uses email on a daily basis learns what spam is and learns to ignore it. Same with experienced developers and AI slop.)

02:44:32 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: someone along the way this spam you are getting got conflated with all AI generated code and anyone who uses AI to help them write code. so if you want to avoid tangents you might try to choose your words a little more carefully.

02:44:38 torir:matrix.org: If someone uses AI and produces quality code with it, well, it will be good code, not slop.

02:44:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: There is nothing vague about the term "vibe coding"

02:45:24 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: maybe not to you, i often have no idea what someone means.

02:46:01 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: because a lot of people who use it cant code. they dont even really know what they man

02:47:01 torir:matrix.org: You might have the misconception that we are all 100% against AI-code. I can't speak for anyone else, but that isn't my personal stance. I am against AI slop, which most AI-generated code is. We ask people to not use AI because it is the easiest way to get them to stop submitting slop.

02:47:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ... ask ai what vibe coding it

02:47:44 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Theres probably a damn wikipedia article about it

02:47:54 pw:xmr.mx: You're misunderstanding...I'm just saying what slop has been defined as since Bikram posted forks of mrcyjanek's work, after Bikram accused him of using AI - which was then investigated by someone whom can code ( @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx ) > <@glowingexplorer:matrix.org> that is false. anybody can write slop. i'll do it now tell it to write a facebook clone. in an hour i'll have a pile of slop.

02:47:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_coding

02:48:28 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > It describes a chatbot-based approach to creating software where the developer describes a project or task to a large language model (LLM), which generates source code based on the prompt. The developer does not review or edit the code, but solely uses tools and execution results to evaluate it and asks the LLM for i [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/nYOExN0KOVBNQmlp ]

02:48:38 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Vibe coding ^

02:48:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i believe what you're saying is you know what vibe coding means. what i'm referring to is understanding. in other words: you need to go tell everyone else what it means because a lot of them dont know, a lot of them lack the intellectual capacity to even understand. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ... ask ai what vibe coding it

02:49:17 pw:xmr.mx: Which is what I said here > <@glowingexplorer:matrix.org> that is false. anybody can write slop. i'll do it now tell it to write a facebook clone. in an hour i'll have a pile of slop.

02:49:17 pw:xmr.mx: The term 'slop' has been used to define people who don't have a single understanding about writing code, yet use AI written code, to then publish that and state they free-handedly wrote that code and deny using AI

02:49:18 torir:matrix.org: Ultimately, it's not our fight to fight. We're just trying to develop Monero, not fix AI-coding culture.

02:49:47 torir:matrix.org: I don't want to be responsible to go on Twitter and correct people who think vibe-coding is the future. It's not worth my time.

02:50:18 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: no, you're saying its an insult on the abilities of the person who created it. i'm saying the best engineer on earth could easily create slop (and probably does).

02:50:53 torir:matrix.org: I've made bad code without the assistance of AI, years ago when I was starting out.

02:51:10 torir:matrix.org: Not as bad as some of these massive 10k line pull requests, wow.

02:51:33 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Vibe coding on a large, complex, open source codebase, is a recipe for failure. Want to vibe code a website? Or some single purpose tool? Go ahead. Its harder for an LLM to fuck up a "write me a static website" prompt, but asking it to integrate i2p into monero is retarded

02:52:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: No they cant

02:52:18 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You can create bad code, but not slop

02:52:40 gucci999:matrix.org: @torir:matrix.org: You can't win anyway, because OpenAI/Anthropic marketing teams literally use social media bots to hype things up and create FOMO on sites like HN, Reddit, and X. As a researcher myself, I have to be honest most of us oversell to executives because that's what they want to hear. If we don't oversell, someone else will take our position and do it

02:52:42 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Slop includes hallucinations. Humans dont hallucinate unless they are coding while on shrooms

02:53:34 torir:matrix.org: Monero Stressnet is using a vibe-coded faucet someone is hosting to distribute testnet funds. The faucet underwent some manual changes, I believe, but AI made the core of it. Acceptable there because it is literally a testnet and no real money is at stake. We're not against vibe-coding for things where the code quality isn't i [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/tdaWxN0KT3hIWVMt ]

02:53:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Slop is called slop because slop - like taking a bunch of random ingredients, putting then in a trash bag, tossing it in the fireplace, and calling it pancakes

02:53:47 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > It describes a chatbot-based approach to creating software where the developer describes a project or task to a large language model (LLM), which generates source code based on the prompt. The developer does not review or edit the code, but solely uses tools and execution results to evaluate i [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/kLuXxN0KcF8wT2RT ]

02:53:47 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: that's an incorrect definition in practice. a large % of the stuff people are calling vibecoded are not this. Such as the website in question, there is a 0% chance this applies to his homepage.

02:53:49 pw:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Why are you taking it on the defensive. Sure some one with no ability or beginner ability or great ability but lazy can produce 'slop'

02:53:49 pw:xmr.mx: But that's not where the conversation started many hours ago. The subject about 'slop' was solely aimed at 100% AI GENERATED code - that people then publish and claim freehand work while trying to earn money for bounties etc

02:53:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Youre retarded

02:54:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: That js THE definition of vibe coding

02:54:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Who's homepage?

02:54:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I don't think anyone here is talking about any specific piece of code

02:55:01 gucci999:matrix.org: If vibe coding is so great, there's no point arguing with us here. Go make some changes to the Monero repo, start some CCS proposals, and earn a ton of money from it

02:55:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I am refering to vibe coded and slop submissions to open source repos

02:55:23 gucci999:matrix.org: Talk is cheap

02:56:04 torir:matrix.org: If the code is good, we review it. Usually if the developer is good you can't even tell if they had AI help. If the code is slop, we ask you to not use AI and go away.

02:56:17 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^^^

02:56:38 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its not like we see emojis and go "ITS AI, TRASH IT"

02:57:05 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: ok then people use the term wrong, this is exactly what i mean when i said i was talking about understanding. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> That js THE definition of vibe coding

02:57:16 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We read the code, find blatant hallucinations, see that the submitter didnt care enough to review the brain rot slop, and we dont review it any further

02:57:48 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its not slop until you see the actual slop in the code, which is why its a drain on maintainers and reviewers

02:58:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Vibe coding doesnt always produce slop, but its also unmaintainable if the design was made without anyone who can explain it

02:58:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Slop is slop whether vibe coded or copy pasted and modified

02:58:47 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: your definition requires they do not change or even read it. i don't know how you can claim to even know that.

02:59:06 torir:matrix.org: It comes with knowing how to read code and being able to tell good code from bad code.

03:00:27 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @torir:matrix.org: so bad code means the dev never even looked at it after it came out of AI? a simple glance means its by definition not vibe coded.

03:01:04 torir:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: I've looked at some of those pull requests. Some of the errors are so bad that it is obvious that the person submitting the code is either not a developer or never reviewed the code at all.

03:01:36 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: you guys make blanket statements about 100% of people and when challenged go back to edge case anecdotes.

03:02:30 torir:matrix.org: I've been making no blanket statements. I've been saying that AI is a useful tool, but is misused by people who don't know how to review the code, and that the volume of AI slop is becoming a problem. That's not a blanket statement.

03:03:26 Cindy: there are people here who kiss that clanker's ass at all costs

03:05:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/graphs/contributors

03:06:09 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: vibe coding doesnt mean that its 1-shot

03:06:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It means that the code was iterated on by asking an LLM to make the changes, and accepting the changes as-is

03:07:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commits/main/

03:07:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: you can see from commits here that this is an LLM making a new commit each time its prompted to fix or change somethibg

03:08:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 200k+ LOC in repo and 500k+ LOC deleted — would anyone say this is not slop?

03:09:36 torir:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Some of the AI pull requests we've been seeing have been really bad. Horribly bad. Laughably bad. So bad we are tempted to make memes out of how bad they are. We aren't calling AI code bad code, we're calling bad code bad code.

03:10:02 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: this is just an extreme example of whu vibe coding is DOA when submitted unreviewed

03:10:19 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @torir:matrix.org: And hallucinated code is bad code*

03:11:17 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You have bad code, like, dev just didnt understand the assignment, made mistakes, or wasnt capable of solving some of the issues. But those are usually worked around via collaboration and reviews

03:11:32 torir:matrix.org: Oh, that too. I remember once reading through a thinking model's thinking output and seeing the exact moment where it hallucinated that the language had a really useful feature that solved the exact problem I was solving. Except that feature didn't exist, and the code didn't compile.

03:12:03 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ive had coderabbit tell me to use outdated functions

03:12:15 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Or tell me do use things that literally dont exist

03:12:23 pw:xmr.mx: Enough of slop and ai talk. Has anyone been outside and done anything exciting today? XD

03:12:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Edit: not me. I was reviewing the PR for someone else and they asked me to take a look at what coderabbit had said

03:13:20 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Coderabbit even told them to format cron incorrectly

03:13:27 torir:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: I was outside. There was this green substance, all thin and bent all over the ground. I was afraid to touch it.

03:13:51 pw:xmr.mx: I bet the real Actual Indians are offended and being tied to our beloved AI technology

03:13:54 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Too much snow to go outside

03:14:20 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: AI isnt even good enough to warm the planet

03:14:24 pw:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: So you indoors snorting it all? Haha

03:14:56 pw:xmr.mx: @torir:matrix.org: Damn that sounds freaky! I'm glad I don't live on your planet!

03:20:20 torir:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: Oh, my planet is the worst. We have politicians the world over trying to ban privacy.

03:22:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I was talking to a partner of mine about what i'm going to do about "illegal immigrants" when i take over usa

03:23:10 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Personally, i think deporting is retarded

03:23:30 pw:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Put it in a LLM sure that will give accurate advice

03:23:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i bet i can prompt an LLM to agree with me

03:24:23 pw:xmr.mx: Give it a go, share the results, could be interesting

03:24:39 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: here me out: US citizens are tax slaves no matter where they are in the world

03:24:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Why would we deport immigrants, and then go chase after roger ver?

03:25:42 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Lets make federal income tax only apply to illegal immigrants

03:28:39 nioc: not edge cases, a deluge

04:32:12 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: that is not necessarily vibe coding. sometimes you and the AI are just in the zone and you don't need to make changes. sometimes you're doing most of the work for the AI with detailed specific prompts etc. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> It means that the code was iterated on by asking an LLM to make the changes, and accepting the changes as-is

04:34:00 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: this is why the term is really problematic, nobody has any clear idea what it means, even the people using it

04:47:03 BlueyHealer: Lol camparing a car and a horse is ao funny. Yeah, I would judge you if you used a car instead of a horse if a car polluted like a small village, soucred its fuel exclusively from dead animals and also lacked controls and could end up 100km from the intended destination, all with the driver claiming it's okay.

04:52:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Yes it is vobe coding

04:53:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: If your role is to give the ai detailed prompts, and let the ai do the work, and iterate with more prompts as you go, its literally vibe coded

04:54:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: vibe coding doesnt mean the prompter is retarded and expect the AI to be psychic

04:55:13 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Like wtf bro, you literally described vibe coding

04:55:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > that is not necessarily vibe coding. sometimes you and the AI are just in the zone

04:55:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ... in the zone = vibing

04:55:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thats where the fuckin name comes from smdh

05:08:13 BlueyHealer: But even with detailed promts, the thing is just not deterministic, no?

05:22:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Of course its not. LLM will give a different answer even if you send the same prompt twice

05:24:40 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Since there is more than 1 way to skin a cat, it will offer anything that might satisfy the requirements of your prompt

05:43:14 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If your role is to give the ai detailed prompts, and let the ai do the work, and iterate with more prompts as you go, its literally vibe coded

05:43:14 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: well then nobody should ever use vibe coding as an insult again, what you just described is just modern coding. some people do it bad some do it well but that's just coding now. there actually no distinction from what you just said and just saying 'coding with the assistance of AI'

05:43:42 ofrnxmr: No it isnt "modern coding"

05:43:57 ofrnxmr: If you arent wroting code, youre not coding

05:44:06 ofrnxmr: Youre vibe coding

05:44:45 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: i'm not going to argue with your definition at all, but there is nothing at all to insult about what you are saying. everybody does that now, that's just how coding works in 2026.

05:45:02 ofrnxmr: Coding with assistance of AI is completely different than directing AI

05:45:14 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Fuck lff

05:45:14 ofrnxmr: Off

05:45:26 ofrnxmr: Youre clearly a troll or a retard

05:45:41 ofrnxmr: Its not how anyone competent codes in 2026

05:45:43 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: that's a distinction without a difference based on the things you're saying. > <@ofrnxmr> Coding with assistance of AI is completely different than directing AI

05:45:52 ofrnxmr: no, it isnt

05:46:09 ofrnxmr: Its the difference between driving a car and taking a self-driving taxi

05:46:34 ofrnxmr: Either you know how to drive, or youre trusting a machine to do it for you

05:46:57 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: if you sit down and prompt a complete app and then put that app online without looking at the code, you have just vibe coded an app. that isn't what you're describing at all.

05:47:07 ofrnxmr: Difference between knowing how to cook, and knowing how to order food

05:48:22 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: bingo. the thing you don't seem to get is that even Gordon Ramsy 'vibe codes' now, according to your definition.

05:48:45 ofrnxmr: He cooks his own food, does he not?

05:49:00 ofrnxmr: I don't watch celebrity chefs, so i wouldnt know what he does

05:49:15 ofrnxmr: Afaik hes a reality tv star and cant cook eggs

05:49:42 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: the gordon ramsay of coding does everything you just called vibe coding. its just that it's fluid. he doesn't do it all the time, just sometimes.

05:50:28 ofrnxmr: Linis torvalds vibe codes?

05:50:34 ofrnxmr: Tevador vibe codes?

05:50:38 ofrnxmr: Kayabanerve vibe codes?

05:50:49 ofrnxmr: Woodser vibe codes?

05:51:12 ofrnxmr: Youre an idiot if you think the best devs out there are vibe coding

05:51:28 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: you are ignorant if you think they are not

05:51:40 ofrnxmr: Youre literally retarded

05:51:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: well correction: that's using your definition of vibe coding

05:52:02 ofrnxmr: Kayabanerve wrote fcmp using claude, did he?

05:52:08 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: you basically called vibe coding ever using AI to help you code

05:52:12 ofrnxmr: And serai?

05:52:34 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: I literally linked you to the wikipedia article.

05:52:55 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: the only people not vibe coding, using your definition, are people who are anti-AI and deliberately don't use it for that reason.

05:53:06 ofrnxmr: Using i to help you code is completely different than prompting ai to write your code for you

05:53:28 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: lol uh no, that's how it helps you code. this is an absurd statement.

05:54:01 ofrnxmr: People use google, ask questions, talk to other devs, and even ask ai. They write their own code.

05:54:08 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i feel like you are really smart technically but you do not code

05:55:37 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: those people exist as i said because they are anti-AI. but they are a dying breed. once they learn its just dumb not to use AI for some stuff.

05:55:39 ofrnxmr: youre really honestly like 50iq if you think monero, haveno, serai, or fcmp were vibe coded at all

05:56:41 ofrnxmr: I just asked a DEV to debug a multisig kex issue. He is not going to use AI for debugging, he is going to run a debugger

05:57:17 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: stuff that existed years ago obviously didn't have the chance to be. but if you think open source projects with a lot of code being contributing to them is not being vibe coded according to your definition, well, you are just objectively wrong. absolutely. why wouldn't guys be having ai help them? of course they are.

05:57:31 ofrnxmr: When it comes to writing the fix, he will write the fix himself, because llms can neither debug or fix complex problems

05:58:12 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Because its not a debugger, and has no knowledge of novel concepts

05:58:31 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: if you got massive codebase and some problem you'd have to be a masochist to not tell AI to go investigate and tell you where to look

05:58:41 ofrnxmr: Ai cannot even begin to write code for things that it cannot be trained on

05:59:02 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: No, youd have to be a retard to ask ai to be a debugger

05:59:14 ofrnxmr: There are tools for that.

05:59:40 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: i didn't say be a debugger, i said tell you where to look. ya at this point it's quite clear you are fluent in this area but you do not code.

06:00:08 ofrnxmr: And if you have to ask AI to read rhe debug output from a multisig key exchange issue, then you shouldnt be touching the code

06:01:10 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: when the day comes you realize how wrong you were about AI + code, i hope you'll remember this conversation and laugh at yourself.

06:01:17 ofrnxmr: i don't code anywhere near the level of the devs that actively work on the codebase

06:02:59 ofrnxmr: And no amount of prompting will ever help anyone get to their level

06:03:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: probably not, i feel bad for people learning to code now. ai is gonna make them very lazy. pain is a great teacher.

06:03:54 ofrnxmr: AI is a tool to help augment your skills. Its not a replacement for them. its literally inferior

06:05:08 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: yes and to me that is what vibe coding means they are spitting out code without the skill to build well. What you describe sounds like just using AI at all.

06:05:45 ofrnxmr: Again, i posted the definition of vibe coding and it is the same thing i describe

06:06:25 ofrnxmr: If you arent writing code, and your purpose to prompt the project/code into existence, then youre vibe coding

06:07:02 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: no is not the same. that definition you posted is so strict you literally can't even look once at the code. what you've been saying is strict in the opposite direction basically any use of AI is vibe coding.

06:07:15 ofrnxmr: and some people are good at it. Some could probably write the code themselves. Again, not all vibe code is slop

06:07:51 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: youre jist talking bullshit now

06:08:17 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: i think you're not aware of your own words, you've shifted the goalposts extremely far.

06:08:28 ofrnxmr: Ive said like 10-20 times that USING ai is no different than using google, asking a friend, etc

06:08:52 ofrnxmr: You take that to say that "using ai" can include vibe coding

06:09:22 ofrnxmr: ^ > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > that is not necessarily vibe coding. sometimes you and the AI are just in the zone

06:09:32 ofrnxmr: ^ > <@glowingexplorer:matrix.org> that is not necessarily vibe coding. sometimes you and the AI are just in the zone and you don't need to make changes. sometimes you're doing most of the work for the AI with detailed specific prompts etc.

06:10:22 ofrnxmr: Youre trying to frame vibe coding as if it means that you have to be a incompetent asshole who sends vague prompts and uses whatever garbage the llm returns

06:11:07 ofrnxmr: When vibe coding doesnt care if the prompts are vague or detailed. If the code is prompted into existence and used as-is, its vibe coded

06:11:34 BlueyHealer: everybody does that now, that's just how coding works in 2026 <- lol as if actual programmers are forced at gunpoint to do the cringe

06:13:45 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: ok but starting from 0 is the key part to me. what if i open the Monero codebase and prompt it to re-write something and submit it. have i vibe coded?

06:15:27 ofrnxmr: Yes

06:15:47 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: programmers tend to be smart, that's why they do it. not because anybody is forcing them to.

06:16:27 BlueyHealer: How is it smart when you're literally dumbing yourself down due to outsourcing solving problems you're supposed to solve?

06:16:43 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: that's very different from the definition you posted, which is a starting from scratch thing.

06:16:52 ofrnxmr: no it isnt

06:17:19 ofrnxmr: Vibe coding doesnt matter if you started a new project from 0 or a new pull request

06:17:41 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i know that this all makes sense in your head man but the words you're saying contradict each other constantly. you're figuring out this whole AI thing so i get it.

06:17:55 ofrnxmr: Youre honestly kinda stupid, sorry

06:18:20 ofrnxmr: Youre acting like "its only vibe coded if the entire project was vibe coded"

06:18:58 ofrnxmr: Basically trying to say that if you add 16k LOC of vibe coded slop to a pull request of a manually written repo, that the PR isnt vibe coded slop

06:19:16 ofrnxmr: You're basically* trying to say

06:20:30 ofrnxmr: Vibe coding is vibe coding, doesnt matter if its an entire project from 0, a new feature being added to an existing project, or some vuln fix on hackerone. If you prompted it into existence, it was vibe coded

06:20:58 ofrnxmr: You're inability to comprehend this is astounding

06:21:05 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: in the same way it's smart to use any technology that puts you on rocket boosters. you can do more, bigger, better. etc.

06:22:07 ofrnxmr: No, no you cant. LLMs cant do anything that they werent trained to do

06:22:08 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: that and coders often go out of their way to be more efficient. not having to boilerplate pages of code is crack.

06:22:52 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: that's not what training means. they aren't trained like dogs. its like they read every book in the library.

06:23:23 ofrnxmr: And none of those books are going to create fcmp

06:24:00 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: 100%. that's what you need a human for. but those books can help with lots of the shit getting there. and probably make the final result better.

06:24:53 ofrnxmr: LLMs like coderabbit and claude code can barely review basic af code

06:25:35 ofrnxmr: Which is why we writ or use unit/functional tests and linters

06:26:37 BlueyHealer: Also I've heard that vibecoded things can be hard to expand on and support later.

06:27:02 BlueyHealer: "An LLM does in an hour what takes a team of seniors years: turn a product into an unsupportable legacy shit"

06:27:04 ofrnxmr: they are, because the 700LOC of whatwver the LLM threw at the wall to make it work

06:27:34 ofrnxmr: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/graphs/contributors i dont even post this to throw shade at the dev

06:28:32 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: you are using a completely different definition of vibe coding this this is correct. you are talking about starting at 0 and vibe coding a project and now it sucks. ya, agreed. AI can be a great helper but using it to write all your code to me is just stupid.

06:28:37 ofrnxmr: But look at the sheer number of LOC written and removed by claude. Repo is over 200k LOC for something that could probably be done in 20k libes or less

06:29:12 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: No. Vibe coding slop additions onto an existing repo also makes it unmaintainable

06:29:19 ravfx:xmr.mx: The thing dont only train on books, it also train on low quality code all over internet...

06:29:52 ofrnxmr: @ofrnxmr: Here is an example https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4445

06:30:11 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: that's one i have never seen actually but ya it probably could quickly fuck up a codebase.

06:30:17 ofrnxmr: @ravfx:xmr.mx: And now even trains on slop created by other vibe coders

06:30:34 ofrnxmr: @ofrnxmr: "ive never seen" ^ heres an example

06:31:22 ofrnxmr: Heres another example (842 files changed) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4536

06:31:25 ravfx:xmr.mx: And yeah, its often more time consuming to process other people code than your code. (Debug other project code vs debug your own project code)

06:31:25 ravfx:xmr.mx: Slop is "other people code".

06:31:32 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: fucking thing is hooked on require in js it never ever starts with ES6. ya trained on old, bad code.

06:32:00 ravfx:xmr.mx: Meaning to debug it you just shove the compiler error to the slopotron and hope it fix ot!

06:35:04 ofrnxmr: Photocopy a photocopy

06:35:10 ofrnxmr: What do they call that, jitter?

06:36:44 ravfx:xmr.mx: Loss maybe?

06:36:44 ravfx:xmr.mx: Jitter is different afaik.

06:37:18 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: yeah, i think jitter is the wrong word

06:37:23 ravfx:xmr.mx: But yeah, slop are poisoning themself thans to sloppy training data

06:37:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: Shit in, shit out

06:38:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But you know what i mean. copilot has to train itself on the mass of slop that is online now

06:38:39 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Which leads to "why dont let ai train itself" (because it degrades into garbage)

06:39:05 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, there poisoning themself. And they cant filter it out

06:39:48 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: thats honestly probably the biggest hurdle for ai right now - avoiding poisoning the training data with slop

06:39:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: Other than, manually selecting the data

06:41:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: They have to audit all foss for quality, ideally only code that predate 2022.

06:42:04 ravfx:xmr.mx: So you dont have access to new code but you effectively filter all slop

06:43:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yeah. And manually select whatbnew code to use

06:44:41 ravfx:xmr.mx: Corporations might or might not have better models (they can train on there own pre-ai code), in bonus its more likely to follow your corp coding style. A assume its what google, microslop and other do. But they wont allow outsiders to use tgeses

06:45:38 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I think m$ trains its ai on aged github repos

06:46:52 hooftly:matrix.org: yall understand it doesnt need to be trained on current data to be effective if you use Model Context Protocol? You can feed if new docs via RAG and it will have what it needs to be effective. I understand the pushbacl but yall are talking about tech you havent actually explorered

06:53:16 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You havent read the 14hrs of backlog

06:54:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Tldr: slop dev accuses manual dev of using ai to write readmes for repos that dont even belong to him

06:54:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Slop dev wants to defend their use of ai by pretending that every dev is vibe coding some part of their project

06:56:01 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I pointed out that the manual dev in question doesnt vibe code anything, and that the examples given are false accusations - the code isnt even written by the person in question, as these repos are all forks

06:57:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Sometime around, someone viewed a website and said that it looked vibe coded, and glowing has been on a mission to portray vibe coding as if its a competent replacement for skilled programmers, and that skilled programmers are all vibe coding in 2026

06:58:14 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: So, its not pushback against LLMs or AI. Its pushback against the retarded accusations

06:59:57 hooftly:matrix.org: I see that now lol. the fork thing is super lol...

06:59:57 hooftly:matrix.org: Not every Dev is using it for sure

06:59:57 hooftly:matrix.org: Its a tool like everything else. Depend on it you become useless. Use it properly and its a force multipler for productivity and learning.

07:01:28 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: honestly has annoyed the hell out of me that people who cant code are trying to paint real coders as their equals

07:02:25 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: People didnt spend years of their lives learning languages and improving, ao someone with 20mins of prompt slopping to accuse them of the same

07:03:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: As far as being a force multiplier, that really depends on what youre doing

07:03:56 hooftly:matrix.org: Yeah defo not equals lol. Its the same as saying a junior intern is equal to a senior it is simply wrong.

07:04:12 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: If youre making a project from scratch, building a website, or some singular purpose tool, it can help build a basic foundation for you based on your design

07:04:17 BlueyHealer: How can you even use it as a "tool"? I don't see an excuse for generated images/sound, but with text I still wonder if there's a "proper" use.

07:05:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: as a tool, it can be similar to using google, or to hiring some fivver dev

07:05:37 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It can find research papers for you

07:05:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Summarize them

07:05:49 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Write you examples

07:06:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Compare things. You can feed it your code and ask it to deduplicate it or optimize it

07:07:13 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But if you just sit back and tell it to to write the whole project for you, you end up in a pool of unmaintainable slop

07:09:34 hooftly:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No one using it in any serious capcity is doing this. But I hear you

07:11:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Define no one

07:12:17 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^ > <@ofrnxmr> https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/graphs/contributors i dont even post this to throw shade at the dev

07:13:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: claude's Commits

07:13:24 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: 138 commits221,776 ++523,006 --

07:14:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: this is just a single example from our community, but there are a lot of "projects" that are vibe coded from stsrt to finish

07:14:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And even more PRs that are vibe coded with 900 files changed wirh bullshit

07:14:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr: ^

07:15:02 hooftly:matrix.org: this is a skill issue my man

07:15:16 hooftly:matrix.org: The person using the tool is using it wrong

07:15:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: Obviously

07:15:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thats why there is vibe coding, and there is slop

07:16:20 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: all slop is vibe coded, but not all vibe code is slop

07:18:54 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You're preaching to the choir. I know that the way these people "use" ai is "wrong", but people who use it like that think youre being racist for not being a fan of it

07:21:07 hooftly:matrix.org: i think both side of the camp are yelling at clouds abe simpson style.

07:21:07 hooftly:matrix.org: But agree its made things frustrating "slop" wise because yeah if you have now knowledge of the subject matter you think turds are gold. for maintainers thats a problem without an immediate answer

07:21:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its one thing to know how to drive, and to turn on tesla FSD. Its another to have no idea how to drive or even use google maps, get into a self driving taxi, and start proclaiming to be the best driver on the road and that prople who still can land a plane should stop learning how and just let AI emergency land it

07:22:48 hooftly:matrix.org: 100% no one should be claiming equality or superiority if they don't know subject matter. Asinine

07:23:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Ive heard repeatedly how prompting AI to do ABC is the future. Thats all fine and dandy at a very basic level

07:23:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Planes have had autopilot for decades.

07:24:05 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Does that mean that pilots can forego learning how to fly manually?

07:25:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: we use calculators, and years ago they taught math and told you not to depend on a calculator

07:25:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You used to count cash as the register and give accurate change

07:25:58 hooftly:matrix.org: At the risk of getting roasted...

07:25:59 hooftly:matrix.org: this is a heavily AI assited project.

07:25:59 hooftly:matrix.org: Its a ETH wallet with dual signature using ECDSA and WOTS to create a PQC resistant wallet.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/-6D8y90KQ2Fpd216 ]

07:25:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: These days, kids cant count to 100

07:26:44 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And its "ok" because we have calculators

07:27:06 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Autocorrect and voice typing means that you dont need to know how to spell

07:27:20 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Does this make us smarter?

07:27:54 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: you have people like kitty who cant even use periods in 1000 word blog posts

07:28:00 hooftly:matrix.org: no and I agree with you on this part for sure.

07:28:00 hooftly:matrix.org: just saying it may be more capable than you think if used right

07:28:26 hooftly:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Ugh

07:28:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Im not claiming that its not able to be used competently by a competent person

07:28:50 hooftly:matrix.org: We are saying the same things now lol

07:29:42 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: voice typing doesnt mean that i cant spell, and using a calculator doesnt mean that i cant do basic math

07:30:13 hooftly:matrix.org: agreed. The dude sharing the forks was peak hahah

07:30:16 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: but you have people who cant spell, proclaiming that the future doesnt involve spelling

07:30:29 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But if you cant spell, you probably canr read either

07:30:44 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Which means the future also need screen readers

07:31:22 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: "hey google, what does this menu say"

07:32:34 hooftly:matrix.org: I understand what you are saying. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but you have people who cant spell, proclaiming that the future doesnt involve spelling

07:32:34 hooftly:matrix.org: I do think that as time goes on subject matter experts (syntax experts) will become less common (and more valued) but AI Abstraction is only going to get more prevalent which means new up and comers will be prompt first devs. Scary thought I know

07:35:42 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i met this kid a couple year ago

07:35:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Maybe 8 years old

07:36:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He could do exponents in his head up to like 50

07:36:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: His parents were below average iq, but kid was a lil genius

07:37:02 hooftly:matrix.org: Hes going places (hopefully) if only we were all so gifted

07:37:02 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: (not all hope is lost)

07:37:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He couldnt explain to me how he did it

07:38:25 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But if i said "whata 16^9" he'd think for a few seconds and give me the answer

07:38:38 hooftly:matrix.org: There is going to be those who still drill into assembly and C and syntax. They will just be the ones who have the drive to do it.

07:38:38 hooftly:matrix.org: He couldnt explain because its a natural reflex for him

07:39:08 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: When i got up to like 16^50, he made a mistake thenw as like "ahh, no thats wrong" grabbed a piece of paper, erote down a hunch of seemibgly random numbers

07:39:14 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And came back with the correct answer

07:39:39 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He was in like 1st or 2nd grade

07:40:13 hooftly:matrix.org: Wonder where he learned in the first place you tube probably lol or maybe a good teacher. Not his low IQ parents im guessing

07:40:21 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: nope

07:40:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I think he just went to his room and looked the stuff up online

07:41:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I stayed with the family for a couple months, and the kid and i would talk about the solar system etc

07:41:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Smart kid, not just math

07:42:11 hooftly:matrix.org: Must of been cool to hang out with

07:42:27 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He would come get me to talk nerd stuff lolol

07:43:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: gave me a run for my money

07:43:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Kept me on my toes

07:43:58 hooftly:matrix.org: Literally are you smarter than a 5th grader (or 3rd?)

07:44:38 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Book smart? this kid? Nope. And more like 1st or 2nd grade

07:44:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Was probably summer between 1st and second

07:51:44 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: people say things like this, which make it obvious they do not code at all, and speak confidently about AI coding. it's absurd. stay in your lane.

07:53:40 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i wonder if there is a proper use case for what Claude is doing for me right now while i shitpost here, going through like 20,000 lines of shit and sorting it for me. i just wonder if there is a proper use case for that. it'd be better if i spent 17 hours doing it myself.

07:54:08 BlueyHealer: I am learning coding now. I know I am a beginner but I read people who do code.

07:54:51 BlueyHealer: Monotone work depends too. Sometimes you end up with more knowledge and understanding after this.

07:54:59 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: ok well once you get to HTML and figure out how to put a cat picture on a page, you'll see the proper use for AI

07:56:40 hooftly:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: not everyone is going to embrace it and that is ok. Dont be the jehovahs witness of AI

07:57:07 BlueyHealer: Why do you assume I'm learning HTML? I did make my website, but not sure if HTML counts as "coding". I was going through C++ and Python.

07:57:21 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Who is winning here ? I am with AI by the way

07:57:37 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org: i do not like being personally attacked and whenever someone starts slandering anyone using AI to code, they are personally attacking me.

07:58:35 hooftly:matrix.org: I read back you both were kind of saying the same thing but arguing about it. He conceded in the right hands it is a tool.

07:59:53 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org: yes we agree on 80%+ the definition of vibe coding and who is a vibe coder (and all the negative shit that goes with that) was where we do not agree.

08:00:28 hooftly:matrix.org: His wiki link is correct IMO

08:01:24 hooftly:matrix.org: But I understand what you mean as well and I think you both agree without realizing

08:07:55 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I think AI can't deliver solid output yet ..LLM can code but the pattern of using AI can't be detected after a few years. But Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) is very close ..Maybe the next one is two years. But fighting against the AI won't make sense..let's create a system where quality matters not tools . You clearl [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/jvGVzd0KdWVhTVJt ]

08:11:17 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: I didnt concede, i had made that point early on

08:11:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: Nah

08:12:27 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I fundamentally disagree with this statement > <@glowingexplorer:matrix.org> that is not necessarily vibe coding. sometimes you and the AI are just in the zone and you don't need to make changes. sometimes you're doing most of the work for the AI with detailed specific prompts etc.

08:12:38 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: You guys detecting AI usage by emojis, dashes, and by the names and nationality..That's your pattern of AI usage detection. Grow up ..It's not a child play anymore

08:12:54 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: No we arent.

08:13:14 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Then How you detected ?

08:13:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2583

08:13:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i detected this was ai by the many mistakes and types on mistakes

08:13:49 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Types of* mistakes

08:14:13 BlueyHealer: "AGI is very close" sounds an awful lot like "the next spin is gonna be the jackpot I swear"

08:14:37 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No dashes. No emojis. No nationalized names. Just a slop submission

08:15:18 BlueyHealer: Emdashes is so sad because it's literally the correct way yet AI made it taboo for writers :(

08:15:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i use emdashes in my own writing

08:16:09 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I also use emojis

08:16:57 BlueyHealer: I didn't like emojis even before but now they're also appropriated.

08:17:05 hooftly:matrix.org: AIs number one use case should be writing docs/readmes IMO

08:17:28 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: to go back to the root of the issue. Why do emdashes and emojis throw red flags? Because it shows that the pr submitter is submitting generated texts

08:17:33 BlueyHealer: As for emdashes - I used them in writing but not in typing, solely because I don't know how to make that symbol and never bothered to learn.

08:17:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: — its on my mobile keyboard after using function key

08:18:05 hooftly:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: AI writes better commit messages and PRs than me tho...

08:18:27 BlueyHealer: I don't type on mobile a lot tho

08:18:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: monero has a specific commit title syntax

08:18:52 DataHoarder: busy tonight I see

08:19:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: just AI, nothing to see here

08:19:16 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No dashes. No emojis. No nationalized names. Just a slop submission

08:19:16 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Yeah ..that's for the dumb people who used AI . When you get quality output from someone..the only thing left that can detect AI usage is very few little..like dashes, emojis.. Neutral Style of writing..not opinion based . Too perfect words .. unnecessary stretching some small things .. excessive use of points and para .

08:19:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Nobody gives a shit about emojis or dashes

08:20:49 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You like to play the victim, as if were hating on you because of your name. As i said above, when someone submits generated text, it raises red flags

08:21:22 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But if you use that .. people are gonna say you are using Chat Gpt..no matter what you say ..even the judge is gonna say you are using AI ..( Judges are Stupid)

08:21:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Why? Because if you didnt bother to write it, 95/100 times, the code is full of hallucinations because its also generated

08:21:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The other 5 times, the code is good

08:23:24 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: so far, i think 0% of the AI generated PRs to monero repos have been any good

08:25:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4544 its stuff like this that makes us not want to review slop

08:25:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And this https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4514

08:26:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Notice, no emojis, no emdashes. Just slop

08:26:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Have to read the code to find out its trash

08:30:21 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: AI is the best puppet tool for the government dictatorship. I am forced to become what this 3rd world country Dictator wants me to do ..I got killed from inside..My regional voice is too less powerful to create attention. My mother tongue speaker is living life that's worse than animals..They got hypnotized by Religion, race, [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/3v7nzd0KWUR6QWlD ]

08:31:15 DataHoarder: that is irrelevant to code

08:32:12 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You're the one who started off this spreading of toxcity by accusing hard working devs of using AI, and by doing so only exposed your own lack of understanding about how git works

08:33:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: If cyjan DID you AI, i wouldnt care. But you were on a mission to accuse him of using AI to write code.. that wasnt evem committed by him

08:34:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: DID use* AI

08:34:50 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Dude you guys fighting against me since I joined..from the 1st day to this day ..Just fighting against AI. I never said he is using AI slops..I said He is using AI to read me file creation..that's not an allegation. It's a common thing.

08:35:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yet you're wrong and 9/10 of the README that you shared werent written by him at all

08:36:03 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And the one that he did write, he clearly added the emojis manually.

08:36:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Whether its common or not, he didnt do it

08:36:49 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Nope

08:36:53 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And i have nothing against anyone that does use AI to write docs or READMEs

08:37:25 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: You think he did becauae he added a table with emojis in a single commit that did nothing else

08:37:58 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I am not buying that shit

08:37:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The README was written and improved in 10-15 different commits over a period of time. it was not generated

08:38:07 hooftly:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: But hes not it was a fork that means you have very little underatanding of the subject matter

08:38:24 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: he posted 1 repo that was not a fork

08:38:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/jwapi

08:39:02 DataHoarder[m]: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Mostly commented that it was the wrong space to post such things, but also specifically pointed out the usage of AI over cryptography implementations which is a big no-no

08:39:31 DataHoarder[m]: the research rooms are not a personal advertisement forum

08:39:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > I need to make better docs for that, you can read dist/build.sh to learn how things are being compiled.

08:39:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > For the executable builds (excluting android) go build is enough, packaging is a bit more complicated, but in most cases few lines of bash solve that, check dist directory to learn how packaging is done.

08:39:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: this is not ai

08:39:42 hooftly:matrix.org: DataHoarder[m]: Dont look at my repo above then lol

08:40:42 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: according to @bikrambiswas:matrix.org , Ai wrote "excluting"

08:44:36 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Ok ..man I am sorry..Stop making it a big issue..maybe he used AI for writing maybe he doesn't. But I never said he is not a talented person. He is talented. His Skillset is much higher than AI tools. I agree with that ..Now please stop whining like a little bitch ..I am sorry if your husband feels bad.

08:44:56 hooftly:matrix.org: Bruh

08:45:09 DataHoarder[m]: damn. that reply went well till ending

08:45:49 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: My bad...I deleted

08:46:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: DataHoarder[m]: I think it started off pathetic

08:47:24 DataHoarder: well, within the context of this conversation

08:47:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: "i was wrong. I have no evidence that cyjan used AI, as none of his repos appear to use any" is the easiest way to retract your baseless statements

08:47:59 DataHoarder: "is joke bro"

08:48:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Better, say "i'm sorry ofrn."

08:49:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Stop taking names

08:49:08 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: 😂

08:49:26 basses:matrix.org: I like how you said you were pissed off spending 30 mins on this and now it is almost a whole day

08:49:36 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: bikram cant read code, use git, or read a readme

08:50:06 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: or, in this case, also cant read english

08:50:07 DataHoarder[m]: @basses:matrix.org: it's like those reports that you engage with and keep wasting more time to explain

08:50:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Because reading cyjans readme is enough to see that it was handwritten

08:50:39 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I am sorry if your husband feels bad.

08:50:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @basses:matrix.org: :)

08:50:51 basses:matrix.org: can just not look at off-topic, I was boycotting offtopic when julia was here

08:51:13 basses:matrix.org: or mute

08:51:18 DataHoarder[m]: "I deleted" jk it's now back! > <@bikrambiswas:matrix.org> My bad...I deleted

08:51:23 ocrn: Speaking for the silent majority that will never join to give their 2 cents: No one wants AI slop in Monero. Can't wait for the bubble to pop.

08:52:07 basses:matrix.org: ocrn: wont pop entirely, just less overhyped

08:52:15 DataHoarder: ocrn already left

08:52:28 hooftly:matrix.org: Wtf lol

08:52:34 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: DataHoarder[m]: He wanted this ..he kept pushing me saying this. Madness level of worship towards a guy .. either husband or boyfriend. That's sure

08:52:36 hooftly:matrix.org: Kitty vibes

08:52:36 DataHoarder: just IRC things

08:53:02 basses:matrix.org: Apple made a deal with Google to use its AI models (Gemini) for Siri

08:53:27 hooftly:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Show us on the doll where he touched you

08:53:28 basses:matrix.org: their strategy for waiting till others fail didnt work and they realized they are way too far and losing

08:54:03 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/jwapi reading the english in the readme, and looking at the readme history, and the commits in general, does anyone think this was generated by ai?

08:54:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Or is it just bikram's wife's boyfriend

08:54:32 hooftly:matrix.org: Its a readme who cares thats what AI is for

08:54:50 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: That's what I am saying

08:54:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: I care that bikky is wrong

08:54:59 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Who cares man

08:55:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: You do!

08:55:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You went out of your way to find evidence that cyjan uses AI. And MADE IT UP

08:55:26 hooftly:matrix.org: Yeah lol you were trying to be like Look AI

08:55:52 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I never said. If someone used AI on Readme...that means that guy is not good devs

08:56:16 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You said someone used ai on readme, then posted someone using their fingers to type a readme manually

08:56:46 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its like being like "some dogs are black, see?" And then pulling out a white dog

08:56:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Like bro, that dog is white

08:57:37 hooftly:matrix.org: Wanna hear a dirty joke?

08:57:37 hooftly:matrix.org: A white horse fell in the mud

08:58:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And your defense is "i never said that black dogs are bad. Some dogs are black, and thats ok"

08:58:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: which doesnt address the fact that the dog is white

08:58:49 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I never said black dogs were bad. Just that theres sonething wrong with you if you cant admit that youre wrong

08:59:27 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You said someone used ai on readme, then posted someone using their fingers to type a readme manually

08:59:28 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Literally majority Readme file AI generated. Can't you read my message..I never targeted anybody..I just detected the use of LLM in Readme..I never said AI slop ..I never said if people using AI on Readme that means he doesn't have python or java Skillset. Check all the conversation and my message. I always saying...he is a qu [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/38nSzt0KTDJoUno1 ]

08:59:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Start insulting my husband because you cant admit that this white dog is black

09:00:47 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/jwapi is this readme file AI assisted in any way? Full of spelling errors, is writtrn in a human tone, has multiple commits, etc.

09:01:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > JW Library app register handlers for every possible thing. Seriously. I've stopped using when after flashing pure Lineage OS, and trying to call somebody it just opened JW Library.

09:01:31 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: this is AI?

09:01:49 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Yes

09:02:01 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Clearly you cant read

09:02:46 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I can say 2021 .. Capilot was available

09:03:09 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: GPT 3 API was available for writing

09:03:37 hooftly:matrix.org: There wouldnt be a typo if it was 100% AI

09:04:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Typos*

09:04:45 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: At that time LLM was well known for typos

09:04:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And human style text like "seriously." And bad grammar like "i've stopped using when after flashing"

09:07:00 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I am talking about 2021 ..kid . You need to grow up .

09:07:29 hooftly:matrix.org: Man stfu AI didnt write like that give up

09:07:35 hooftly:matrix.org: Not even in 2021

09:07:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You need to grow a pair and admit that youre clueless and dont know wtf youre talking about

09:09:17 DataHoarder: AI is no replacement for learning and knowledge

09:10:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: wrt bikram, im not even going that far. He's simply wrong in his attempt to discover who is and isnt using ai, and needs to apologize and admit that he is wrong

09:12:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Whether AI is a replacement for a brain is another subject, but you cant just say shit about other ppl just because it makes you feel better about yourself. none of the examples you gave were evidence of cyjan using ai, at all

09:12:53 hooftly:matrix.org: Ugh

09:12:55 retarded_chat:matrix.org: this chat actually retarded af

09:12:58 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: if he did, he did. Who cares. But he didnt, and your head is too big to admit it. You just keep throwing out more bad examples as bullshit evidence

09:13:29 retarded_chat:matrix.org: like yall been crying about AI this AI that for literally MONTHS, not just today but MONTHS, just close the slop PR and stfu about it yea???

09:14:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The slop prs are closed

09:14:17 DataHoarder[m]: now all the party members have gotten together

09:14:40 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Kitty ofrn hoofty and that retard datahoarder

09:14:49 DataHoarder[m]: :D

09:15:49 hooftly:matrix.org: Lol

09:16:42 retarded_chat:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/aIUPmoUFxDxOKdUNonMmGUvT.png (image.png)

09:17:07 retarded_chat:matrix.org: ^ still better than the upcomings AI slop readme.md from hooft

09:17:45 retarded_chat:matrix.org: that retard tried to copy paste me some 2000 lines AI "summary" about why NFT are so cool or some shit like wtf lol

09:18:15 ocrn: yo people, we need TOTAL CLANKER DEATH

09:18:21 retarded_chat:matrix.org: which btw, i made my own AI chatgpt before chatgpt was even a thing so yall stfu

09:18:50 hooftly:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/EybPqPsKsROYATkYOKoLRswM.jpg (1000008289.jpg)

09:18:57 retarded_chat:matrix.org: ....

09:19:03 retarded_chat:matrix.org: u missing the larrybird edit on that one

09:19:06 retarded_chat:matrix.org: with the green face thing

09:19:46 retarded_chat:matrix.org: cause pfp was the green thingy lol

09:21:28 hooftly:matrix.org: That AI paste was a summary of a 42 page whitepaper. Its not my fault you gave no fucks to read it because "AI Bad"

09:22:01 retarded_chat:matrix.org: smh lol

09:30:24 retarded_chat:matrix.org: @plowsof:matrix.org DataHoarder[m] yall keep telling people in #monero to go to #monero-markets but it's still not bridged

09:30:24 retarded_chat:matrix.org: please fix

09:30:24 retarded_chat:matrix.org: kthxbye

09:30:50 DataHoarder: you'd know I cannot fix it if you could read

09:31:05 DataHoarder: they can talk on each of their sides :')

09:31:09 DataHoarder: the IRC side

09:31:22 DataHoarder: and the 5 matrix sides

09:39:46 321bob321: What's the point

09:42:20 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: "i was wrong. I have no evidence that cyjan used AI, as none of his repos appear to use any" > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> wrt bikram, im not even going that far. He's simply wrong in his attempt to discover who is and isnt using ai, and needs to apologize and admit that he is wrong

09:42:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thanks

09:43:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Can call a truce now

09:44:13 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Can we finish fighting now

09:44:37 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Sure can

09:44:43 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: By the way..you people are good human beings

09:45:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Love to have discussion in real life with a whisky

09:45:05 DataHoarder: beep boop. does not compute

09:45:38 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: But you have to come to India

09:46:59 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You said india isnt a nice place

09:47:10 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I am gonna show my place..how it's fucked up . I got a small house. You don't have to worry about anything. If you guys ever came to India..just ping me

09:47:40 hooftly:matrix.org: Isnt it a big country?

09:47:53 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i know a bunch of people from india who came overseas for school/work. Some who went back

09:47:55 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: India is a great place..but now politics fucked up this whole into a big fucking mess.

09:48:13 hooftly:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Politics fucked everywhere

09:48:36 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Politics+ Religion+ Caste System

09:48:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Ah. Politics. Politics suck here too.

09:49:07 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Then came the massive unemployment..

09:49:27 hooftly:matrix.org: World is at a turning point there is a reason they are trying to implement chat control and fuck privacy

09:49:42 hooftly:matrix.org: Monero is more important than ever

09:50:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Need to control people before people stop allowing themselves to be controlled

09:50:15 hooftly:matrix.org: Monero plus Real DeFi is the only tool to fight back IMO

09:50:40 hooftly:matrix.org: Finance is the only way

09:51:48 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I know how it feels when you see AI slops getting 10k for Submitting slops ..In here.. People who are having 0 IQ, nepotism, politics ..let them rug the whole economy..These are worse than AI slop..and it's not thousands..the amount is in billions and trillions

09:52:27 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Ruging trillions of dollars

09:52:52 DataHoarder: > I slops getting 10k for Submitting slops ..In here.

09:52:54 DataHoarder: where

09:53:08 hooftly:matrix.org: Yeah I dont follow

09:53:09 orly_owl: slopcoin

09:53:41 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Vibe coding or whatever it is

09:53:52 DataHoarder: yes, which project got 10k

09:53:54 DataHoarder: if it's monero-bounties a lot of that is up to the original requestor, but afaik not even there

09:54:51 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: All i wanted to say ..it's nothing compared to the injustice in real life.

09:55:16 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Monerosim > <DataHoarder> > I slops getting 10k for Submitting slops ..In here.

09:55:26 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: And we all are victims..Maybe all are not ..But I am .

09:55:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim @datahoarder

09:56:35 DataHoarder: afaik they didn't get paid for that directly

09:56:42 hooftly:matrix.org: This got a Bounty?

09:56:44 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Right

09:56:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Nothing paid yet

09:57:01 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its a ccs

09:57:19 hooftly:matrix.org: If the communtiy funded it they funded it

09:57:23 DataHoarder: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/gingeropolous-netsim.html

09:57:26 hooftly:matrix.org: Anyone can propose

09:57:32 DataHoarder: > Details - I am using heavy AI assistance to create Monerosim, a piece of software that coordinates running monero in the shadow network simulator. Current work can be found here: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim

09:57:41 DataHoarder: yeah they directly funded AI

09:57:55 DataHoarder: it's less than someone submitted AI to a proposal

09:57:57 hooftly:matrix.org: At least he is honest

09:58:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: MRL approved it, community was largely quiet on it / not approving it

09:58:56 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: MRL approved because the tool is supposed to be useful, people in community like myself abstained from the vote because i dont agree with funding vibe code

09:59:10 DataHoarder: same opinion here

09:59:33 DataHoarder: XD https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commit/eaa58ca067d314140278b7f8fb84239370664dc5

09:59:34 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But proposer said no pay until proven working, so i didnt vote no

10:00:02 DataHoarder: also using other cloud llm :D

10:00:37 Cindy: fix cloudfare blocks... by making yourself even more obvious

10:00:39 hooftly:matrix.org: Hmm I see

10:00:39 Cindy: big brain move

10:00:52 DataHoarder: yeah, usually how it works Cindy

10:01:04 DataHoarder: they disable generic stuff, labeled stuff usually is allowed on APIs

10:01:13 DataHoarder: as they can explicitly add filtering

10:05:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Over 700k loc added+removed from that repo too > <DataHoarder> XD https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commit/eaa58ca067d314140278b7f8fb84239370664dc5

10:06:30 hooftly:matrix.org: He gave a 2 week timeline?

10:07:06 Cindy: does it even work

10:07:26 hooftly:matrix.org: well he wont get paid if it doesnt haha

10:07:34 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy: It's works

10:07:38 orly_owl: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

10:07:54 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @hooftly:matrix.org: I don't think so

10:08:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: It doesnt

10:08:09 hooftly:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: So what you are bitter? Submit a proposal

10:09:13 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Its made some progress, like, it can start 1000 monerod nodes in regtest mode, but really you can do that with a 10 line bash script

10:10:08 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org: I told you ..I don't want to engage in fund war ..my opinion is different.. Create something that is going to destroy the Government Censorship .. Makes the internet free again. I am in a different war...So I don't want to engage in this nonsense.

10:10:49 hooftly:matrix.org: what do you plan to build to achieve that?

10:12:39 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org: Ideas ..easy idea..that I can spread like vibe code. Soon or later they are gonna create Surveillance architecture by using AI ..that's why we need vibe coders..more and more ..So their whole plans to control you are going to fail.

10:13:48 hooftly:matrix.org: Bruh no.

10:13:49 hooftly:matrix.org: coding stuff to fight that is insecure because you dont know what it is will get you killed

10:14:03 hooftly:matrix.org: This is not smart thinking

10:22:25 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I can code..But I am not a coder..That's why I am dropping AI slops creating new tools sharing codes ..so it can take people just 30 minutes to build..soon or later thousands of people build their own tools for their own use ...Just like the internet..It was planning to be implemented like a spyware..but they failed..and the i [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/wrCC0d0KNGkwRTZ3 ]

10:23:02 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: At the end of the day... The government fears most of their own people and nothing else.

10:23:21 Cindy: "that's why we need vibe coders..more and more ..So their whole plans to control you are going to fail."

10:23:28 Cindy: that's the most dumbest shit i've rea

10:23:29 Cindy: read*

10:23:41 Cindy: it would actually be easier to control you if there were a lot of vibe coders

10:23:47 Cindy: since they can just... turn off the black-box slop machine

10:23:51 Cindy: and watch everyone panic

10:24:22 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: You didn't get the decoy concept

10:24:42 hooftly:matrix.org: There is no decoy concept here

10:24:52 Cindy: ^

10:25:39 Cindy: they can manipulate the AI you use

10:25:54 Cindy: because you don't actually own it, it's a black-box machine hosted by some big corporation

10:25:57 hooftly:matrix.org: You dont understand. If you sepend on a tool Like AI to fight back and depend on it to build like cindy said they just turn off, but worse they just hack your insecure ai gen apps

10:26:03 Cindy: or even turn it off on you

10:26:15 hooftly:matrix.org: Cindy: This too.

10:26:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy: @grok put ofrn in a bikini

10:27:25 hooftly:matrix.org: Grok is a menace haha

10:28:19 Cindy: twitter users when they see underaged girls posting pics of themselves:

10:28:23 hooftly:matrix.org: Bikram in all serioisness your best tool is to learn opsec and basic cyber security not vibe code

10:29:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: > <Cindy> it would actually be easier to control you if there were a lot of vibe coders

10:29:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: How ?? Vibe coders start with 0 ..But slowly started to gain the concept of codes .. Architecture, algorithm..Then it will be harder to spread the narrative. Every Anti privacy stuff runs by the narrative of money laundering, national security, etc etc ..It's gonna expose..if people started to engage in coding. Engage AI ..the [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/h-Ca0d0KTmVJemxw ]

10:29:38 hooftly:matrix.org: You arent getting it. AI isnt an open and free tool dude

10:30:06 hooftly:matrix.org: The moment its used in any meaningful way like you want it gets shut off

10:30:13 hooftly:matrix.org: You think you have access to it at that point? Cute

10:30:58 Cindy: i use AI sometimes, but i don't kid myself. it's just a black-box hosted over the internet

10:31:23 Cindy: that's why i don't use it for coding

10:31:27 hooftly:matrix.org: 100% and it WILL get locked down one day.

10:31:38 Cindy: i just use it for dumb shit like proofreading

10:32:16 hooftly:matrix.org: They are giving everyone access now to train as soon as it where they want it they make it for corpos only

10:32:28 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: That's a good suggestion. > <@hooftly:matrix.org> Bikram in all serioisness your best tool is to learn opsec and basic cyber security not vibe code

10:36:33 Cindy: we don't need more vibe coders, we need more coders

10:37:02 Cindy: don't embrace over-dependency on AI

10:37:08 Cindy: because it might backfire

10:38:04 orly_owl: like Cindy after demolishing a buffet

10:39:56 Cindy: that doesn't backfire, i just run

10:52:16 plowsof: vibe coding behind a pay wall : hardware

10:52:30 plowsof: the MRC

10:53:53 plowsof: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/gingeropolous_1TB_MRC.html

10:55:19 321bob321: Ram only node ?

10:56:11 basses:matrix.org: vibes only node

11:07:22 plowsof:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/QFlLIEYfNCESjYxprREJIace.png (Screenshot from 2026-01-18 11-07-47.png)

11:08:33 plowsof:matrix.org: xmr_guyy this channel allows non-registered users to view and talk but only OPs see their messages "👁️@"

11:10:46 Cindy: go register a libera account

11:10:59 DataHoarder: you only saw that plowsof :D

11:11:36 DataHoarder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6LFOIofRE

11:12:18 Cindy: putting the weeb in weebdatahoarder

11:12:42 DataHoarder: rizon is the weeb network tbh

11:29:00 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @plowsof:matrix.org: How to get registered..I mean is there any registration process to join this server

11:29:41 DataHoarder: https://libera.chat/guides/registration

11:30:30 plowsof:matrix.org: the cross i must bare 😔 > <DataHoarder> you only saw that plowsof :D

11:30:46 plowsof:matrix.org: bear*

12:34:43 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: DataHoarder: Total blank page

12:35:21 DataHoarder: it works even on Tor browser

12:35:44 Cindy: also works without JS

12:37:50 basses:matrix.org: works on my machine

13:38:49 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: But not in my phone

13:39:11 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/QCzBBSCQDDEKXRdLGGVXusNJ.png (1000162008.png)

13:41:59 Cindy: what about https://libera.chat/

13:45:52 plowsof:matrix.org: doesn't bikram host a proxy api service thing? he can debug and fix this NP

13:48:04 Cindy: does india really block libera chat?

13:48:10 Cindy: or is it the other way around

13:50:48 basses:matrix.org: Cindy: lol

13:51:45 basses:matrix.org: I think the only country that got blocked are uk or other with weird laws about children

13:52:07 basses:matrix.org: not on libera but other services

14:01:45 orly_owl: uk hates children

14:09:09 BlueyHealer: I forgot: does Libera allow registration from Tor in general? Like, if someone has it blocked but cannot afford a VPN?

14:11:53 orly_owl: https://libera.chat/guides/connect#accessing-liberachat-via-tor

14:12:15 Cindy: BlueyHealer: no

14:12:25 Cindy: you have to register from a residential IP

14:12:25 orly_owl: ^

14:12:42 Cindy: but you can access libera from tor provided you have set up CertFP in your accout

14:12:45 Cindy: account*

14:14:26 BlueyHealer: Yeah, that part I know.

14:14:27 basses:matrix.org: literally a dumb policy

14:14:47 BlueyHealer: I just didn't know if you could register there (since there is an identity being established)

14:14:50 Cindy: it does look dumb, but really it's because of spammers

14:14:51 basses:matrix.org: using tor on already account that have its residential IP logged doesnt make sense

14:15:30 BlueyHealer: Doesn't have to be residential it seems, my bouncer works from a datacenter. Or it does block, say, famous commercial VPNs?

14:15:42 Cindy: ^

14:15:51 basses:matrix.org: because banning Tor completely is bad PR

14:16:10 BlueyHealer: basses, yeah. But I meant not anonymity, but cases when it is blocked (as was discussed prior)

14:16:49 Cindy: it's because of spammers

14:17:03 Cindy: libera doesn't want to have a wide-open door for spammers

14:17:14 Cindy: so they need you to connect from a good IP

14:17:18 Cindy: before you can register

14:18:31 plowsof: initiate new years eve spam until they learn blocking certain things is required

14:19:52 Cindy: they put a ton of IP ranges in the SASL-only list on new years eve lol

14:19:59 Cindy: including residential proxies that the bots used

14:20:21 Cindy: i don't know if they removed them now

14:20:42 BlueyHealer: Ah, didn't know it varied with time

14:21:15 Cindy: there are exceptions to the rules like that spam i mentioned above

14:21:25 Cindy: if you were using a IP that got put in the list, you can't register either

14:21:29 Cindy: even if you're residential

14:21:29 BlueyHealer: Anyway, I wonder if you could contact staff if you wanted to register but the network was blocked directly, because in some places it is very possible.

14:21:57 BlueyHealer: Cindy, you mean you cannot register even after a ban is lifted?

14:21:58 Cindy: oh one time i emailed libera staff to change my account name for me

14:22:13 Cindy: BlueyHealer: not until the IP is lifted from the list i think

14:22:31 BlueyHealer: Like, do they only lift bans for access but not registration, or you mean during those times?

14:23:06 Cindy: SASL-only means you can only connect to the network if you have completed a proper SASL authentication

14:23:12 Cindy: for those IPs

14:23:19 Cindy: which basically means you can't register or do anything but login

14:24:01 Cindy: BlueyHealer: bans for access and registration, except if you SASL auth

14:25:13 Cindy: if that's what you mean

14:25:40 BlueyHealer: Yeah, you meant the bans were for certain periods - do they lift them for both after that?

14:25:56 Cindy: yes i think

14:26:02 Cindy: i don't actually know

14:38:52 pw:xmr.mx: @plowsof:matrix.org: Apparently, even posted a short clip of it being used.... Yet they are the ones having an issue accessing the libera website.. maybe the AI they used seems to be 'slop' after all?

14:39:20 pw:xmr.mx: Here > <@bikrambiswas:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/gLPKnCMQrMlPTvGIFWlQavLL.mp4 (1000159824.mp4)

14:41:36 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: I fixed the link.. removed the donation wallet.

14:41:36 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://nym-proxy-backend.vercel.app/

14:41:40 pw:xmr.mx: Be good to see if they find a work around. Surprised libers page is blocked

14:42:15 plowsof: host a tor exit node instead - that might make me think you are aware of the risks and have taken appropriate measures

14:42:22 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/JmxnEyPQIhOkyjgdWDRbLjBI.png (1000162014.png)

14:42:23 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: It's working now

14:43:39 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Actually I used AI tools..You can check they ruined my Whole GitHub..then I fixed everything..it took me 3 days to fix his mess . > <@pw:xmr.mx> Apparently, even posted a short clip of it being used.... Yet they are the ones having an issue accessing the libera website.. maybe the AI they used seems to be 'slop' after all?

14:47:23 BlueyHealer: AI tools were given direct access to Git?? Or just that the code wasn't reviewed prior to pushing?

14:48:10 hooftly:matrix.org: Lol

15:09:51 basses:matrix.org: should we start feeding AI?

15:09:58 basses:matrix.org: actual food

15:13:55 Cindy: don't

15:13:59 Cindy: you'll cause a food shortage

15:14:14 Cindy: AI companies will buy out all the food for their AI models

15:14:16 BlueyHealer: expired food is going to landfills anyway

15:15:29 Cindy: and then food companies will sell directly to AI companies

15:18:44 basses:matrix.org: oh, you are right!

15:19:20 basses:matrix.org: put we will go to stone age at this rate, they ate all our RAM

15:19:28 basses:matrix.org: but*

15:21:48 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: Not direct access..I integrated with the local environment.. stupid AI shared a few commands ...Then it messed up my whole respotory.

15:22:46 Cindy: basses: but hey, it would be cool to see thicc AI :P

15:23:12 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: How to give direct access ? ..I tried but Chat GPT rejected.

15:24:33 ofrnxmr: BlueyHealer: "both"

15:25:24 ofrnxmr: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I know that copilot commits directly and claude can probably push directly

15:25:38 Cindy: bikrambiswas: is this really how vibe-coders think?,

15:25:45 Cindy: actually no thinking involved here

15:25:58 Cindy: this is the equivalent of blindly running some commands a stranger gave you

15:26:53 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: I don't have money to pay fees on those things .I use free services..I use the free services of chat gpt, Deepseek, Grok, Gemini..

15:27:10 Cindy: here's something you can get for free

15:27:11 Cindy: books

15:27:18 Cindy: you can read them, learn from them

15:27:23 DataHoarder: Running exe as a service Cindy

15:27:39 Cindy: you probably need them so you don't trip on some landmines the AI plants for you

15:28:04 DataHoarder: Alternatively curl ChatGPT | sudo bash -c -

15:28:07 BlueyHealer: I understand Gemini and Deepseek, but Grok??

15:28:11 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: Can you share the details...How to do that. Please

15:28:39 hooftly:matrix.org: Stupid AI shares command and you ran them without knowing what was gonna happen? AI isnt stupid here > <@bikrambiswas:matrix.org> Not direct access..I integrated with the local environment.. stupid AI shared a few commands ...Then it messed up my whole respotory.

15:28:42 DataHoarder: Ask AI how to AI

15:28:44 Cindy: DataHoarder: you might aswell lol

15:28:54 DataHoarder: I mean it is the equivalent Cindy

15:29:03 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: That sucks > <Cindy> books

15:29:19 Cindy: bro, you need KNOWLEDGE

15:29:24 DataHoarder: Plenty of posts there of users working on random stuff and then their whole system is deleted

15:29:27 Cindy: desperately

15:29:29 DataHoarder: lol

15:29:33 Cindy: some common sense

15:29:38 DataHoarder: No wonder this is the approach you are taking

15:29:40 hooftly:matrix.org: You joke but this is called Meta Prompting and is actually viable for certain things lol > <DataHoarder> Ask AI how to AI

15:29:48 Cindy: stop giving AI access to your system so it can nuke it

15:29:56 DataHoarder: You are replacing knowledge with AI

15:30:06 DataHoarder: If you never learn you will never be able to see what's actually of value or good even if you use AI

15:30:24 BlueyHealer: I've seen news of an LLM doing this to a PRODUCTION DATABASE

15:30:27 Cindy: DataHoarder: no you see, this is the future, we need more vibecoders

15:30:40 Cindy: more brainless people who just type prompts and do what the AI says

15:30:54 DataHoarder: I have seen that Cindy and it has caused each time security incidents that we had to report to the European governing bodies lol

15:31:01 DataHoarder: Three fucking times all coming from AI usage

15:31:17 hooftly:matrix.org: bikram my dude you are supposed to be reading everything the AI spits out so you understand it and learn otherwise you are pissing in the wind

15:31:25 DataHoarder: Not cause AI, but cause people slopped all over the place

15:31:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I think you just use an IDE plugin and then allow the IDE to push

15:31:37 DataHoarder: And didn't want to learn to even realize how bad of an idea or stuff they brought in

15:31:37 Cindy: AI can't be wrong y'know

15:31:44 Cindy: why not just do what the AI says

15:31:49 Cindy: even if it looks weird or dangerous

15:31:54 Cindy: just do it, it's smart

15:32:23 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: BlueyHealer: I know at least 1 person who uses grokai

15:32:23 Cindy: i don't need to know what the fuck "rm -rf --no-preserve-root /" does to my system

15:32:39 Cindy: i just know it has my best interests in mind

15:32:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For code

15:32:54 DataHoarder: It has the shareholders interests in mind

15:33:14 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @hooftly:matrix.org: Actually I created a Roadmap ..I stopped in phase 1 ..After creating the whole structure...then the next day he forgets everything...and shares a few different commands messed up the respo. To be honest ..I am not claiming I am not using AI ..I am openly using AI ..I am vibe coders. I have no shame in [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/0tf02d0KVG9zRVFV ]

15:33:16 imprevisto:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/TpXYTtYBTOMdzwLqCSOZSXiZ.png (b2.png)

15:33:34 imprevisto:matrix.org: this is all for your best interest

15:33:54 DataHoarder: My cautious or outright pessimistic approach is due to specific experiences that come up EVERY time it touches anything code or novel

15:34:13 Cindy: fuck knowledge

15:34:31 DataHoarder: You can do well with it in people that have the knowledge or in short snippets but it fucking destroys on anything novel

15:34:32 Cindy: knowledge sucks, AI can be my smart friend that i offload anything that requires brain activity for

15:34:38 DataHoarder: Or field specific knowledge

15:34:44 Cindy: so i can be a mindless consumer

15:34:59 DataHoarder: However it explains things in a way that it takes a field expert to disprove them as bullshit

15:35:08 DataHoarder: Or well, show it not working

15:35:35 DataHoarder: I am still laughing about that RandomX AI vibecode project

15:35:43 Cindy: bikrambiswaas: you are not learning shit

15:35:53 DataHoarder: Where it keeps failing and commenting in code how impossible it is lol

15:35:55 Cindy: you are tripping onto landmines the AI leaves out for you

15:36:12 DataHoarder: But the viveslopper is... not reading output, it all fails ofc

15:36:17 Cindy: because you don't bother doing any more research onto what the AI gives you, nor any second-hand opinion

15:36:19 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy: ^

15:36:32 DataHoarder: Funnily their AI literally outputted my ow reimplementation of RandomX

15:36:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: If you want to learn, get AI to write some real basic code, then try to write it yourselg

15:36:41 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Or ask AI to teach you how to write the code

15:36:53 Cindy: you are basically just george jetson pressing a button with no thinking behind it

15:36:55 DataHoarder: Cause it's the only one existing, but stripped copyright headers and broke more shit

15:36:58 Cindy: yes click "run"

15:37:05 Cindy: click "run" on all the commands

15:37:12 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: DataHoarder: What came first, the chicken or the AIG

15:38:16 Cindy: ofrnxmr: or just read documentation and resources on the internet

15:38:30 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I learnt...that I should trust AI for coding . It's good for structure to create. Eventually it's gonna become a disaster. So create a basic White paper using AI ..then try to implement it manually. That's the way I am doing things now . > <Cindy> bikrambiswaas: you are not learning shit

15:38:31 Cindy: and try to write stuff based on that

15:38:41 Cindy: "I learnt...that I should trust AI for coding"

15:38:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I cant even read — i said this yesterday. I use a screenreader

15:38:50 Cindy: after it blew up your repository

15:39:15 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy: I should not..( typos)

15:39:15 Cindy: is this stockholm syndrome?

15:39:19 Cindy: oh

15:39:40 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Typos...Not stockholm syndrome

15:39:48 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: It's a human error

15:39:56 Cindy: ofrnxmr: you use a screenreader?

15:41:25 DataHoarder: 𝓘𝓼 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓼 𝓽𝓮𝔁𝓽 𝓪𝓬𝓬𝓮𝓼𝓲𝓫𝓵𝓮?

15:41:39 DataHoarder: 🅘🅢 🅣🅗🅘🅢 🅣🅔🅧🅣 🅐🅒🅒🅔🅢🅘🅑🅛🅔?

15:41:43 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Readable

15:41:56 DataHoarder: 𝕀𝕤 𝕥𝕙𝕚𝕤 𝕥𝕖𝕩𝕥 𝕒𝕔𝕔𝕖𝕤𝕚𝕓𝕝𝕖?

15:42:08 DataHoarder: ℑ𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔰 𝔱𝔢𝔵𝔱 𝔞𝔠𝔠𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔟𝔩𝔢?

15:42:19 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Yes

15:42:35 DataHoarder: įʂ էհìʂ էҽ×է ąççҽʂìҍӀҽ

15:42:36 Cindy: asking ofrnxmr

15:42:56 DataHoarder: 🕴💲 🍄♓🕴💲 🍄𝓔❎🍄 🅰🌜🌜𝓔💲🕴🅱👢𝓔❓

15:43:26 DataHoarder: I know the answer for the last one which is even hard here

15:43:54 DataHoarder: ɪꜱ ᴛʜɪꜱ ᴛᴇxᴛ ᴀᴄᴄᴇꜱɪʙʟᴇ

15:44:35 DataHoarder: (Curious how the screen reader works, most of these should have an Unicode normalization that works but some are too exotic)

15:45:55 DataHoarder: NFKC or NFKD afaik

15:46:44 BlueyHealer: But creating structure is also important enough to do yourself, no? And to me it seems like the most fun part.

15:51:45 pw:xmr.mx: What is this? /s > <Cindy> books

15:53:27 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: BlueyHealer: Like the ideas are on my mind ..But I don't know which platform is available for free stuff deployment. I wanted to build a Dashboard where I Will Extract data from 10 plus legitimate platforms that share Legitimate data like OONI, Censored Planet, RIPE Atlas, M-Lab,..etc integrate with my app .. people will get f [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/pdq-2t0KUHI0OTBn ]

15:55:00 pw:xmr.mx: I'm sure this was also said yesterday? > <Cindy> you are basically just george jetson pressing a button with no thinking behind it

15:55:01 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: The most fun part is ..I am extremely new to this app development thing.

15:55:24 Cindy: pw: uhuhuhu, it sounds something.. boring people who get no chicks do

15:55:39 Cindy: how will books make us score

15:58:03 basses:matrix.org: https://www.phoronix.com/news/ChaosBSD

15:58:57 pw:xmr.mx: Knowledge is power.

15:58:57 pw:xmr.mx: I still can't get my head around people never seeing a vinyl record, a cassette tape, a mini disc, a floppy disc, a VHS or even a fucking CD.

15:58:57 pw:xmr.mx: Then the 1st fucked up generation relying on social media/AI for false information when like you say there are books to learn from. [... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/mOvS2t0KVkxuMFV5 ]

15:59:45 Cindy: libraries exist

15:59:56 Cindy: i still see CDs these days

16:01:00 BlueyHealer: IMO a defined project is one of the best ways to learn. That sounds like an interesting opportunity!

16:05:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Hi > <Cindy> asking ofrnxmr

16:06:09 DataHoarder: I even have tapes at home! That get used!

16:06:15 DataHoarder: LTO tapes that is

16:07:17 ravfx:xmr.mx: That does not count 😂

16:07:17 ravfx:xmr.mx: I do have LTO's too

16:11:07 DataHoarder: It's magtape

16:11:26 DataHoarder: But ok I also have floppies

16:11:39 DataHoarder: And ONE single IDE drive still working

16:12:05 ravfx:xmr.mx: Me too.

16:12:05 ravfx:xmr.mx: It's me or the 1.2MB one are way more reliable than the 1.4MB one?

16:14:27 ravfx:xmr.mx: DataHoarder: I do have a bunch of CD drive / burner unit. Most of them get the "stuck don't eject problem", I will maintainance them, one day.

16:14:27 ravfx:xmr.mx: Most of the other IDE stuff I have are compact flash adapters

16:14:52 plowsof: I hope the aliens know what vinyl disks are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

16:14:55 ravfx:xmr.mx: Switching to solide state make big improvement even for 35 years old things

16:15:47 pw:xmr.mx: Hi @ravfx:xmr.mx 👋

16:16:13 BlueyHealer: I think they included the player and instructions on the Voyagers

16:16:21 ravfx:xmr.mx: If Voyagers it ever meet aliens.

16:16:21 ravfx:xmr.mx: How much time it take for that stuff to degrade?

16:16:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: They even includued a map to tell them where we are

16:16:48 BlueyHealer: BTW vinyls is the one physical media I 100% understand the obsession with, since there's such a tangible difference.

16:17:14 plowsof: I think pure gold lasts "forever"

16:17:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, and vinyl disks emit micro vinyl dust in your air when you play it, I hear it's healty

16:17:44 plowsof: Lol

16:17:48 pw:xmr.mx: Can't beat the crackle and pops and the variable bitrate of a vinyl record.

16:18:08 ravfx:xmr.mx: @pw:xmr.mx: And the media degradation every time you play it

16:18:17 BlueyHealer: Just how much of an issue is that if you don't keep them on too much, ventilate the room and keep it clean?

16:18:25 hooftly:matrix.org: My 13 year old daughter asked for a record player for Xmas. Still super popular

16:18:35 plowsof: Yes vinyls are popular now

16:19:22 pw:xmr.mx: Began dying off a decade or so ago. Coming back in fashion last few years faster than the redneck mullet.

16:21:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: BlueyHealer: I don't know.

16:21:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: If you have air quality sensors and you play a vinyl the first time and place the detector not to far from the player, it beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

16:22:52 ravfx:xmr.mx: I mean, is that worst than all the plastic where eating... at the end..

16:24:07 pw:xmr.mx: BlueyHealer: There are worse things to think about.

16:24:07 pw:xmr.mx: Vinyls are there to be enjoyed. If it's a special record or a valuable record buy X2 and keep one in pristine condition.

16:24:07 pw:xmr.mx: Anti-static/microfiber cloth and kept out of direct sunlight and don't live in squalor you will be fine..[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/u4Kv290Ka01JZUFf ]

16:25:29 BlueyHealer: I wonder if an air quality sensor would go off just from the city air, my weather source says it's bad

16:44:52 ravfx:xmr.mx: Who run local models?

16:44:52 ravfx:xmr.mx: That's what I run locally.

16:44:52 ravfx:xmr.mx: I don't use any remote models.

16:44:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/jtQjRiBAnfxkMHJFXeyKZyxt.png (clipboard.png)

16:45:30 ravfx:xmr.mx: If only the build instruction for vLLM ROCm edition still existed krrrr

16:47:21 Cindy: hi

16:48:52 nioc: <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Since there is more than 1 way to skin a cat, <<>> may I suggest a different phrase

16:49:03 nioc: there is more than one way to pet a cat

16:49:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: 😂

16:49:41 Cindy: if aliens can understand binary

16:49:44 Cindy: why not give them data

16:49:59 nioc: <bikrambiswas:matrix.org> That sucks > <Cindy> books <<>> watching the end of civilization in real time

16:51:04 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: Because they won't understand the data if they can even parse it properly (convert the binary to whatever the data is)

16:51:44 nioc: <pw:xmr.mx> Can't beat the crackle and pops and the variable bitrate of a vinyl record. <<>> I have 78 rpm records that I copied to cassette tape. The tape has little in the way of high frequencies so it got rid of most of the hiss and much of the other noise

16:52:14 nioc: if you think regular 33 rpm vinyl can be noisy 78 is omg

16:52:31 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, tape where way superior to vinyl, especially the metal tapes if you got a fancy tape deck that support it

16:52:42 Cindy: anyone think CDs are cool,

16:52:45 Cindy: ?*

16:52:49 Cindy: like 700MB in a disc

16:53:12 nioc: my car has a combo cassette and CD player

16:53:20 nioc: no digital

16:53:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: CD are not old enough to be cool.

16:53:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: Eventually the nostalgia bit will get flipped on for theses too

16:54:28 Cindy: they were made in the 80's

16:55:05 Cindy: nioc: but CD is digital

16:55:41 nioc: I mean the other digital lol

16:55:45 Cindy: ah

16:56:04 nioc: have thousands of songs on a device

16:56:25 ravfx:xmr.mx: But they are practical for these DOS games that need audio track for the music...

16:56:25 ravfx:xmr.mx: But there even not really usefull for anything else considering your 486/pentium mmx can just connect to the network with etherdfs and mount ISO with shsucdx/shsucdhd things

16:56:48 Cindy: just play OPL

16:57:06 ravfx:xmr.mx: I ment... Late dos games 😂

16:57:10 Cindy: who wanted to waste space on music lol

16:57:15 Cindy: i mean actual rendered music

16:57:23 Cindy: instead of sequenced music

16:57:27 Cindy: ravfx: makes sense lol

17:01:46 Cindy: what kind of old tech can connect to the internet btw

17:02:17 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: You can go on IRC with an Altair 8800 or a PC XT

17:02:19 BlueyHealer: Cindy, for CDs - not really. On one hand, I would love to buy them if I ever get to an event like Comiket, or just a band concert, that's a nice memorabilia and a whole experience. But on the other - for just collecting or ripping, I wouldn't bother.

17:03:03 ravfx:xmr.mx: But most of the net is inaccessible for retry stuff since the great TLS event

17:03:17 BlueyHealer: ?

17:03:20 Cindy: i saw someone connect to libera from a sega genesis

17:03:26 BlueyHealer: What retry stuff?

17:03:40 ravfx:xmr.mx: BlueyHealer: Anything that don't sport a recent OS / Browser

17:03:41 Cindy: it was a cartridge that had a ESP32 inside (for wifi connectivity)

17:03:47 ravfx:xmr.mx: you need TLS capability

17:03:51 ravfx:xmr.mx: for literally everything now

17:04:09 BlueyHealer: I know. What does it have to do with retries?

17:04:41 BlueyHealer: (also tbh I feel like it's a fine tradeoff for having TLS everywhere)

17:05:35 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yes, you can have TLS on a 486 on windows 95 or NT4 with hacked up openssl libs by some japanese guy and a thing I don't remember the name (I have it somewhere), that create tls bridge.

17:05:35 ravfx:xmr.mx: But then you need to create one for each domain you want to connect... so have fun with "normal web browsing"

17:05:35 ravfx:xmr.mx: But It's manageable to enable TLS IRC

17:05:52 pw:xmr.mx: Nioc I have some vinyl that are 130bpm. Although not my default genre of choice these days, I kept a hold to remind myself of my youth XD

17:05:55 Cindy: you can implement TLS in old platforms lol

17:06:14 BlueyHealer: I still don't get what it has to do with retrying

17:06:39 ravfx:xmr.mx: YEah, no one did it yet.

17:06:39 ravfx:xmr.mx: A proxy would work. (So you can jusut use your Netscrape Communicator 4.77)

17:07:27 Cindy: rust tls works pretty well on windows 95

17:07:30 ravfx:xmr.mx: But then other problem is the net is full of CSS and Javascript now... There are proxy thing that does that and strip all the CSS and JS but at the end, the "normal www" is basicaly unusable on anything not modern

17:07:39 Cindy: i think windows XP??

17:07:40 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: Rust binaries need SSE

17:07:55 Cindy: ravfx: https://seri.tools/blog/announcing-rust9x/

17:08:00 nioc: pw some of my 78rpm are so old they have grooves on only one side

17:08:16 ravfx:xmr.mx: So yeah, if you install windows 95 on a PIII Tualatin or something else with SSE I guess it work

17:08:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: Well, with windows XP you have more chance to be able to run a browser that can do the TLS bits

17:09:27 Cindy: as mentioned in the blogpost, the only problem thats stopping rustls from being compiled on windows 9x is RtlGetRandom

17:09:45 Cindy: which you could replace with some other method of fetching entropy

17:09:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: https://www.mypal-browser.org/

17:09:51 ravfx:xmr.mx: No idea how well it work, never tested

17:10:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: Yeah sure, but everything you compile with rustc require SSE

17:10:42 ravfx:xmr.mx: at minimuum

17:11:07 Cindy: i wonder if the compiler can be configured to not use SSE

17:11:32 ravfx:xmr.mx: There implementation in C for 9x, if only it was made better (not having to configure each individual domains)

17:11:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: And the hacked up japanese openssl libs work on 95

17:11:56 Cindy: apparently you can use soft-float

17:12:05 BlueyHealer: br-m: <ravfx:xmr.mx> But most of the net is inaccessible for retry stuff since the great TLS event <- I am still impatient to know what you meant

17:12:10 Cindy: which completely gets rid of SSE instructions, but floats are done in software

17:12:13 Cindy: rather than hardware

17:12:26 ravfx:xmr.mx: You will have to implement support to generate x86 code without using any extentions (no MMX, SSE, etc, etc) > <Cindy> i wonder if the compiler can be configured to not use SSE

17:12:31 Cindy: as long as your program doesn't use float too much, i don't think it'll be a big deal

17:12:47 ravfx:xmr.mx: BlueyHealer: Most site require TLS (https)

17:12:57 Cindy: ravfx: -Ctarget-feature=+soft-float

17:13:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: Cindy: will have to try.

17:13:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: I did test netbsd on my 486 a while ago.

17:13:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: None of the Rust stuff in there i386 repo executed

17:13:56 ravfx:xmr.mx: someone have to go fix that if that's even possible

17:14:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: But ideally someone would implement x87 support in rustc

17:14:17 Cindy: this is what i did for my PS1 game

17:14:19 ravfx:xmr.mx: because it's waaay better than soft float

17:14:24 Cindy: (because the PS1 does not have a FPU)

18:29:45 writemarble:matrix.org: https://x.com/marblecub1/status/2012952720089432447?s=20

18:29:52 writemarble:matrix.org: Juice this tweet bros

18:32:10 Cindy: this is cringe

18:34:15 Cindy: you don't actually care about monero, you just care about the price

18:34:25 writemarble:matrix.org: Yeah I need to be more direct

18:34:32 writemarble:matrix.org: Thats not true

18:59:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: There is nothing left at that address

19:00:50 Cindy: did you delete the tweet after my message?

19:01:04 Cindy: damn, i didn't expect that

19:09:14 BlueyHealer: What happened?

19:09:49 Cindy: the tweet was about XMR $1000 incoming or something

19:09:56 Cindy: milking or juicing

19:19:19 BlueyHealer: ah

19:28:08 ravfx:xmr.mx: Valve updated its dev tos

19:28:08 ravfx:xmr.mx: Developpers don't have to disclose that there games contain slop anymore (It folded to NVDA pressure apparently)

19:29:02 Cindy: VALVE FOLDED

19:29:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: Valve is a corporation right.

19:29:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: What matter is the profit at the end.

19:30:25 Cindy: oh wait

19:30:35 Cindy: it actually means that you don't have to disclose that your game has AI

19:30:40 Cindy: if you only used AI-powered dev tools

19:30:41 hooftly:matrix.org: You still have to disclose assets

19:30:49 Cindy: yeah

19:30:55 Cindy: you still have to disclose AI generated assets

19:30:55 hooftly:matrix.org: Like anything customer facing

19:30:58 Cindy: or content during gameplay

19:31:02 Cindy: but code, you don't have to

19:45:50 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Similar to Vibe code projects ..who pretends codes are real ?

19:47:41 BlueyHealer: :_(

19:56:39 321bob321: Ai assisted

19:56:54 321bob321: Keepassxc allows it now

21:49:07 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: you guys having a discussion where 'slop' 'vibe coded' 'ai powered dev tools' 'ai assisted' are all used interchangeably. this is what happens when people who do not code talk about this shit. the language you use makes it absolutely clear you don't have any fucking idea what you're talking about. which, ironically, makes anything you have to say on the topic === slop

21:52:18 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: some people who code do not use ai, most do, a large majority use it in at least some way. i'm going to bet ~0% would say 'slop' 'vibe coded' and 'ai assisted' all mean the same thing.

21:56:21 Cindy: i program lots of things without AI

21:56:41 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i have no idea what that means

21:57:17 Cindy: i have no AI assistance :P

21:57:30 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i'll take a guess, you're saying 'i know enough about AI to know it just produces slop when coders use it'

21:57:48 nioc: yuflli

21:57:48 nioc: '

21:58:09 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I programmed nothing without AI assisted..cause google engine kinda AI tech behind the scenes.

21:58:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: I do a lot without AI.

21:58:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: Only place I use AI is for the boring shit like html/css (is that even programming)

21:58:46 Cindy: i made lots of shit without AI: synthesizers, patches to programs, some emulators here and there

21:58:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: and according to the prevailing wisdom here that means you are a vibe coding slop monkey

21:59:01 Cindy: just low-level stuff

21:59:10 ravfx:xmr.mx: There studies that confirm that AI made actual code contain way more flaws in general (because it's trained on shit like github)

21:59:39 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy: Can you share ..let me check. How low level it is 😂

21:59:50 plowsof: Here in my Garage.... Just a chill Sunday.. i own a few lambos that you can see in the background there. If you want to live this lifestyle , buy my book "The path from ,Free QR generator to Ferrari 'prompting you first million'"

22:00:29 nioc: plowsof: I was promised lambo

22:00:57 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: this is somewhat misleading in my experience because while technically true if you can do 50x more the % of errors is acceptable. you're often even aware of it while its happening and choose not to fix it. non programmers will have an aneurysm reading that failing to understand how it works, for example i dont give a shit about errors in my readme usually.

22:00:57 nioc: y ferrari

22:01:03 Cindy: if i share, bikrambiswas will immediately try to say i used AI

22:01:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: I do ROM patch for my retro computers.

22:01:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: All x86 assembler, to install in an EPROM on network card

22:01:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: That's low level enough :p

22:01:21 Cindy: https://codeberg.org/techmetx11/lightfm

22:01:30 Cindy: this is a software FM synthesizer for embedded devices

22:01:31 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy: I am not going to do that.. promise.

22:01:43 plowsof: Sry for false advertising niioc

22:02:28 nioc: goes back to his $1.25 dinner

22:02:38 Cindy: the README is a bit garbage because i didn't have much to talk about

22:02:41 ravfx:xmr.mx: Does SLOP can produce reliable assembler now? Last time I checked it was doing a lot of stupid

22:03:00 plowsof: Checking readme for any use of ~~strikethrough~~ 👁️

22:03:03 Cindy: also i used a compiler intrinsic for my mixer, to do a saturated addition without assembly

22:03:14 Cindy: but in a way that didn't generate too much fucking CPU instructions

22:03:30 ravfx:xmr.mx: AI seam to be best for Python afaik

22:03:44 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Cindy: readme is what non coders can understand usually so they're going to pounce all over it with slop vibe coding accusations. but in reality its basically the least important file in the entire fucking codebase

22:04:21 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: It's your work..I can see bugs in the mixer . > <Cindy> this is a software FM synthesizer for embedded devices

22:04:56 basses:matrix.org: lol

22:04:58 Cindy: really? tell me about it

22:05:04 ravfx:xmr.mx: Current model I use is GLM-4.7 356B (I am kind of limited because I only run AI local.

22:05:22 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Cindy: Bug in the portable (non-builtin) path

22:05:23 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Check carefully

22:05:44 basses:matrix.org: you are really quick with copy and pasting into chatgpt and ask to check for bugs

22:05:50 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/ofGWlJrwDQMmPbECylTZfrCv.png (1000162104.png)

22:06:03 Cindy: okay yeah that

22:06:06 Cindy: what about it?

22:06:33 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: No man.. I just clicked 3 files ...I didn't use AI yet .

22:06:43 Cindy: i'm confused, what's the bug?

22:06:46 Cindy: i did test it before

22:06:50 basses:matrix.org: so where is the exact bug?

22:07:47 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @basses:matrix.org: Max and min ..Not correctly ordered

22:07:49 basses:matrix.org: Cindy: tests are for AI

22:07:50 basses:matrix.org: but anyways back to topic

22:08:00 Cindy: ... not correctly ordered?

22:08:24 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Yes

22:08:33 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: thats cool sounds like fun but if your point is that makes you qualified to slander people with accusations of slop and vibe coding, it does not. > <Cindy> i made lots of shit without AI: synthesizers, patches to programs, some emulators here and there

22:08:39 basses:matrix.org: in if statements or return?

22:08:40 ravfx:xmr.mx: 🍿

22:09:16 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: b > 0 she overflowed it upwards.. right??

22:09:27 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Ok we get it, youre a vibe coder

22:09:56 plowsof: Bikrambiswas can review monerosim.for us :D

22:10:02 Cindy: b > 0 == b is positive

22:10:06 Cindy: b < 0 == b is negative

22:10:11 ofrnxmr: plowsof: Glowing* can

22:10:12 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: it depends which of your many definitions of vibe coding that you use. i'm the one who uses AI to help me code.

22:10:27 ofrnxmr: Bikrambiswas is my new friend

22:10:35 plowsof: Aw

22:10:42 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: You prompt ai to write code*

22:10:53 ofrnxmr: While in the zone

22:11:23 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @basses:matrix.org: Upwards...I think it should not returns minimum .

22:11:28 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: this is the kind of thing that makes it a dead giveaway you dont code. what do you even fucking mean. what does 'write code' mean here. every time i touch the editor i'm writing code.

22:11:32 basses:matrix.org: can confirm bug

22:11:33 basses:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/poTczcvxmzmZjVADJvOFGpbh.png (clipboard.png)

22:11:36 basses:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org

22:12:01 basses:matrix.org: took me many hours debugging

22:12:24 Cindy: huh

22:12:33 plowsof: When submitting a hacker one report ^ you must reproduce it first :D

22:12:56 Cindy: well i tested the implementation by playing all channels at once

22:13:08 ravfx:xmr.mx: the return statement are reversed

22:13:08 ravfx:xmr.mx: or i'm too drunk

22:13:09 Cindy: and checking if the clips worked well

22:13:34 Cindy: yeah the return statements are reversed

22:13:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: you check if it's too high then you return min if it's too high (and vice versa)

22:13:39 Cindy: damn

22:13:47 Cindy: i am dumb

22:14:00 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: Exactly

22:14:22 Cindy: guys don't check my ADSR envelope code, it's obviously garbage

22:14:31 Cindy: but thanks for the bug in the mixer

22:14:40 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: sometimes i give AI a vague idea and we go back and forth for an hour on details and i tell them to spec it out in a markdown file and edit that myself and go to a different ai and ask their input and then we hammer even more details and then i go through 20 steps of implementation hand holding them, reverting them, going back [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4t-y5d0KY0ttQ0Fn ]

22:14:43 basses:matrix.org: wont paste into gpt, trust

22:15:47 basses:matrix.org: I mean duck.ai is terrible anyways compared to any model rn, even ones that have full source code context

22:15:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: Ai is totally fine for markdown I think

22:15:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: I mean, if it's a static page like html+css.

22:15:54 ravfx:xmr.mx: What is the risk?

22:16:41 ravfx:xmr.mx: Any of you vibe coder could recommand other model than GLM 4.7 for local ai?

22:16:41 ravfx:xmr.mx: I have to test what make html+css better!

22:17:19 321bob321: Cause its so confident its right > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> There studies that confirm that AI made actual code contain way more flaws in general (because it's trained on shit like github)

22:17:25 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @basses:matrix.org: There are hundreds of files out there ...you talking about I pasted the whole thing into chat gpt..I detect the bug within a minute with the exact bug in the mixer section. Then you should hire a chat gpt.. instead of a real guy

22:17:41 ravfx:xmr.mx: @321bob321: I mean, it's trained on buggy code from github... right...

22:18:12 ravfx:xmr.mx: so while code might run just fine, it might have... surprise... I would not trust that to go into monerod

22:18:24 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: because the human doesn't know it's wrong. if it confidently tells you something you know is bullshit, you dont believe it. this is precisely why vibe coding gets a bad name. people who cannot spot huge errors just accept it.

22:18:26 321bob321: I seen it create a otel config with commands and they dont even exist

22:18:32 basses:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: ravfx were faster than you and said the exact some bug

22:18:51 321bob321: I got that command doesnt exist and then it goes try this

22:18:58 321bob321: Go*

22:19:50 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: because the human doesn't know it's wrong. if it confidently tells you something you know is bullshit, you dont believe it. this is precisely why vibe coding gets a bad name. people who cannot spot huge errors just accept it. > <@321bob321> Cause its so confident its right

22:21:12 Cindy: the day i got corrected by a slopist :(

22:21:15 Cindy: cries

22:21:32 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Yes

22:21:32 plowsof: F

22:21:34 basses:matrix.org: redeem to AI sir

22:21:39 Cindy: fair game bikrambiswas, fair game

22:21:52 basses:matrix.org: bruh you type a wall of text

22:22:02 plowsof: Bikrambas is now lead maintainer and will take it from here, thank you for your service

22:22:43 basses:matrix.org: https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/ has many bugs @bikrambiswas:matrix.org bet you cant find any

22:23:16 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: Im going to school so i can learn to be a better promptet

22:23:36 ravfx:xmr.mx: Ask gtp-oss-120B to make the prompt for you

22:23:52 basses:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: is it even good?

22:23:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: That one piss real fast too

22:23:57 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: the fact that AI is so useful and so powerful to help write code, causes this bullshit to perpetuate. because anybody who knows just does it and doesn't waste time with this bullshit. and you morons are left to spew nonsense about vibe coding slop

22:24:06 ravfx:xmr.mx: @basses:matrix.org: Meh, it's like if you want to have the answer real fast

22:24:13 ravfx:xmr.mx: But to make prompt it work okish I think

22:24:49 ravfx:xmr.mx: I only keep it in my collection because of the speed.

22:25:08 basses:matrix.org: duck.ai has it

22:25:18 ravfx:xmr.mx: fsck that

22:25:18 ravfx:xmr.mx: local or gtfo

22:25:36 ofrnxmr: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: You talk as though you have some amazing project?

22:25:59 basses:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: I think monero pulse is his project

22:26:17 basses:matrix.org: https://monero-pulse.com/Home

22:26:21 ofrnxmr: A fkn 2 page website? Fr?

22:27:03 basses:matrix.org: but I already report bug about a day ago, he should've prompt fixed it

22:27:19 basses:matrix.org: reported*

22:28:17 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: But AI didn't detect the error..it's not even an error..it's just minimal errors..which can create problems later integration. It's just a few basic programming stuff. AI is not that smart yet .You have put a specific area with an explanation..Hey chat gpt is it ok have MAX here ..then chat gpt [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/yY_k5d0KZ1BHb2RW ]

22:29:06 Cindy: what

22:29:55 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Sybil attack in future.. going to be AI running nodes

22:29:58 ravfx:xmr.mx: Id say I don't care about AI as long as it does not go in code that must be as secure and flawless as possible

22:29:58 ravfx:xmr.mx: who care if monero-pulse.com is slopped, it was probably fast to create, it work, it look ok...

22:29:58 ravfx:xmr.mx: But please, put the real logo on thing like wallets

22:30:03 ravfx:xmr.mx: instead of emojis

22:33:57 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/KVDQWEWYHKTaUmXLxqMraJpe.png (1000162105.png)

22:34:09 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: i'm not sure what you mean by 'a few basic programming stuff' but AI will absolutely make horrible architecture, security etc decisions if you just let it do whatever it wants. This is why to me its a badass tool, it's not a replacement for me. It's just a tool.

22:35:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/docker%2Fdocker-compose_with_tor.yml > <@basses:matrix.org> https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/ has many bugs @bikrambiswas:matrix.org bet you cant find any

22:35:16 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Tell him to fix the environment

22:36:10 basses:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:monero.social insulted

22:36:10 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: AI is not ready yet..It's still much dumber than you believe it is .

22:37:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @basses:matrix.org: Ofrnxmr doesnt use docker

22:38:18 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Fix what

22:38:40 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Humans can pretend dumb ..where they can hide their intelligence..control their intelligence. AI doesn't have any General intelligence..that's why we call it Artificial.

22:38:43 basses:matrix.org: this https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/docker%2Fdocker-compose_with_tor.yml#L16-L18 ?

22:38:49 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: that's the key distinction. those who prompt and those who understand. vibe coding is the art of prompting. one or may not understand but it's about prompting. but to use AI to do software engineering it's not about prompting. you have to be a fucking software engineer. if you aren't, if you don't understand the [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/34OL5t0KM3BIR1d1 ]

22:39:00 basses:matrix.org: btw you can select code lines like I did, I bet you already know that

22:39:21 ravfx:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Yeah, it's just extremely narrow (fancy autocomplete), we are far from AGI shit (if that even possible)

22:39:29 ravfx:xmr.mx: But for sure it can write extremely well

22:39:43 benchmarking420:matrix.org: jfc and i thought gooners were brainrotted af but seems like #monero-offtopic actually wins the most brainrotted award

22:39:43 benchmarking420:matrix.org: for disclaimer, i just posted a benchmarket over #monero-pow with a chip that literally has "AI" in the name of the chip so yall stfu about AI

22:39:43 benchmarking420:matrix.org: like, i been using hardcoded bots for specilized applications in the past, and still to this day they still wayyyy better than anything "AI"

22:39:47 ravfx:xmr.mx: does that thing can make typos or use wrong words (in 2025)

22:39:49 ravfx:xmr.mx: ?

22:39:49 benchmarking420:matrix.org: like sure, reinforcement learning can eventually have better results but it requires soooo much training

22:39:49 benchmarking420:matrix.org: and then guess what? some random update in the application that it's running can happen that then makes all that training data completely obsolete

22:39:49 benchmarking420:matrix.org: on a hardcoded bot, you can just edit a few variables here there and there and done, watcha gonna do with AI? retrain the whole thing from scratch? that's so inneficient

22:39:50 benchmarking420:matrix.org: like... how much outdated data those LLMs think it's still up to date u know?

22:39:50 benchmarking420:matrix.org: you gonna prompt some LLM to be like "code this shit" and it gonna give you some shits that are missmatching versions or whatever, while you wouldnt do that mistake by doing it manually

22:39:51 benchmarking420:matrix.org: so like it has been said already or kinda, if u wanna use it for tasks that dont matter then sure whatever

22:39:57 benchmarking420:matrix.org: just not for anything "in production enviornments"

22:39:57 benchmarking420:matrix.org: hardcoded bots and manual labor is still better even to this day than any LLMs when it comes to shits that actually matter

22:39:57 benchmarking420:matrix.org: TLDR: STFU ABOUT AI ALREADY NOBODY GIVES A SHIT JUST FUCKING MOVE ON ALREADY FUCKING WASTE OF TIME STG

22:40:01 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @basses:matrix.org: As i am someone who doesnt use docker - whats wrong with it?

22:40:28 basses:matrix.org: idk, bikram knows better

22:41:35 ravfx:xmr.mx: Wow that guy fru af, leave the chan because we talk about AI 😂

22:41:45 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: Its kitty

22:42:00 ravfx:xmr.mx: oh, I see, another of his hundraids alts

22:42:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org whats wrong with the docker env?

22:43:04 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: I don't have alts

22:43:19 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Not directed at you

22:43:21 benchmarking420:matrix.org: @ravfx:xmr.mx: how's your glowie pool going u dipshit fed?

22:43:42 basses:matrix.org: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/find-bug-in-services-swapclien-Im3Z7E2LTAqGVfwOFjsijQ

22:44:10 basses:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org faster than u?

22:45:10 ravfx:xmr.mx: @benchmarking420:matrix.org: Soon™

22:45:10 ravfx:xmr.mx: Got delayed because of Samsung (I don't want to be responsable of people idle mining if it go down again).

22:45:11 ravfx:xmr.mx: Made test workaround for the Samsung problem...

22:46:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: If my feather node go down because of samsung then it just connect to another one... And I can fix it..

22:46:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: The pool must not go down because of stupid drive going in hibernation and not waking up (even with a reset signal)

22:48:31 ravfx:xmr.mx: I got so far

22:48:31 ravfx:xmr.mx: 4 Samsung events

22:48:31 ravfx:xmr.mx: 3 different drives

22:48:31 ravfx:xmr.mx: 2 different servers

22:48:56 ravfx:xmr.mx: Applied the "fix" on all of them, waiting more to be sure it's ok...

22:49:07 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @basses:matrix.org: I know..What's problem going to happen..if you don't set the environment...it's never gonna reach tor Proxy. The environment is fully empty..Just basic errors..you don't need a high level programing Skillset for that

22:49:32 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @benchmarking420:matrix.org: that's not how it works. it doesn't paste in random shit for you. it's very close to thinking. hence the name 'artificial intelligence'. the point you're making is that it's stupid. and thats a valid point. but i would counter that sometimes an army idiots is a useful thing to have. and can do [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/1rey5t0KRVdJTXJ1 ]

22:50:14 ravfx:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: don't you have to set that in .env or something?

22:51:23 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Check it's empty..you can detect that in your naked eyes..

22:51:26 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FapmjYPQGMMIIGvbPbjpasgQ.png (1000162106.png)

22:52:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Its in env file

22:53:05 hooftly:matrix.org: Lol

22:53:10 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/docker%2Fexample.env

22:53:23 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I shared the same screenshot earlier..You can clearly detect that. > <@bikrambiswas:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/KVDQWEWYHKTaUmXLxqMraJpe.png (1000162105.png)

22:53:30 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @basses:matrix.org the ports are also bound to localhost on the env file

22:54:05 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ai seems to have failed on this one, due to not knowing context (contents of env file)

22:54:53 benchmarking420:matrix.org: @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > "that's not how it works. it doesn't paste in random shit for you."

22:54:54 benchmarking420:matrix.org: bruh, it still can't do basic math to this fucking day

22:54:54 benchmarking420:matrix.org: while, was it 2017? the sentdex video thing training math? it could do some big numbers maths but single digit math it wasnt able to cause he didnt train it enough on the small numbers, fun shits cause those up to date LLMs from 2026 are still shit at basic math

22:55:15 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: i saw you slandering this site with vibe coded slop accusations and suspected you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about. and i was proven right. > <@basses:matrix.org> I think monero pulse is his project

22:56:54 benchmarking420:matrix.org: like the other day, tried asking the search engine duckduckgo for how much potassium in avocado and the AI answer was "7% of the daily intake" luckily i knew the answer already before asking, was just looking for the exact number at the decimal, but like, that shit would make u OD if you take anything it outputs at face value

22:57:21 benchmarking420:matrix.org: then for a cooking recipe "can u do that recipe for 4 people instead of for 2 people" it dont even multiple by 2 but do like x1.2 LMAO

22:57:30 benchmarking420:matrix.org: that shit retarded

22:57:33 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: yes, as i said, you're calling it dumb. and i'm not disagreeing with you. a tree is dumb too, but useful. > <@benchmarking420:matrix.org> @glowingexplorer:matrix.org: > "that's not how it works. it doesn't paste in random shit for you."

22:57:51 Cindy: holy shit

22:57:56 Cindy: i can't believe it

22:58:01 Cindy: the day i also agree with kitty?

22:58:11 Cindy: WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY

22:58:15 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Cindy: Right? I agree here too

22:58:51 Cindy: you're gonna tell me hell will freeze over too, right?

23:00:24 benchmarking420:matrix.org: @plowsof:matrix.org: AI could still do better than u tho u fucking retard 🖕👿🖕

23:00:24 benchmarking420:matrix.org: that's how retarded u is

23:00:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org no issue with dockerfile considering the env file sets the vars, right? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/docker%2Fexample.env

23:01:22 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Im not asking for no reason. if theres an issue it should be fixed

23:02:00 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: But right now, i dont think there is an issue since the values are set

23:02:07 plowsof: You acknowledge i do something, thank you

23:02:31 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It will reach your destination..But docker never gives you a warning

23:03:38 ravfx:xmr.mx: You, ideally you should set default if it's not in the environement.

23:03:38 ravfx:xmr.mx: and if you parse it more you see that the "tor" shit is included in the dockerfile...

23:03:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/doc%2Finstall.md#L34-L37

23:04:00 ravfx:xmr.mx: so why puting the variable in .env if the dockerfile run the daemon too

23:04:02 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The install instructs you to use the env file

23:04:43 ravfx:xmr.mx: it should be in the the .env so the use can use a different TOR. But it should still use 172.16.238.200 by default if not specified in the .env at all because it does provide TOR

23:04:57 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: That specific dockerfile is for when running wkth tor enabled

23:04:59 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, at that point it's mostly use stupidity proofing

23:05:53 ravfx:xmr.mx: if user follow the instruction it should work

23:06:49 ravfx:xmr.mx: but if user just copy the dockerfile and don't follow the instruction, it won't work (even if it can work by setting the TZ and TOR stuff by default in the dockerfile (but still allow the user to change it in the .env)

23:06:52 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I dont use or recommend docker install anyway, its convoluted and doesnt really provide emhanced security since the wallets are all "live" anytime youre running the dex anyway

23:07:45 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: What ? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/master/doc%2Finstall.md#L34-L37

23:07:55 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, well, if they cant follow instructions they probably shouldnt be building from source and managing the install manually(which is what the docker setup does)

23:08:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: But one can argue that you use docker so you don't install it manually

23:08:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: just get the file and docker-compose up -d

23:08:42 ravfx:xmr.mx: lazyness winn\

23:09:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: It is built from source when using docker, manually

23:09:24 ravfx:xmr.mx: But it does it for you

23:09:30 ravfx:xmr.mx: that's why you use docker

23:10:26 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thats why i dont use basicswaps docker, because it doesnt do it for you

23:10:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: oh, then it's broken.

23:10:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: It was kind of doing it for me when I tested last time

23:10:53 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: you issue the build command, which is equivalent to no-docker's pip install .

23:11:06 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: You used basicswap-bash :P

23:11:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: docker-compose.yml should work when you run docker-compose up

23:11:34 ravfx:xmr.mx: if will do the "build" automatically if it does not exist

23:11:39 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Probably 90% of bsx users are using basicswap-bash

23:11:42 ravfx:xmr.mx: docker is really lazy mode

23:12:38 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: docker compose up starts basicswap (maybe builds too), but basicswap still needs to be configured before that

23:12:46 ravfx:xmr.mx: Main place I use docker is for mail stuff

23:12:46 ravfx:xmr.mx: You know, postfix, spamassassin, clamav, the ui to manage it, amavis shit, etc, etc, etc... fk that, docker win (for that one)

23:13:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: So you have to build it w/o starting it, configure it (add coins, set xmr heights etc), then start it

23:13:29 glowingexplorer:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr: i've learned not to release things publicly. people always wind up trashing what i've built over arguments like these. but yes i think i'm building something pretty cool.

23:13:36 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: If ..coindatapath..tor..torrc is missing on the host what's docker gonna do ??

23:13:45 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Just asking

23:13:50 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Its not missing

23:14:11 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: basicswap-prepare --enabletoradds these files

23:15:29 pw:xmr.mx: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Curious, did you use AI to generate that? 🤣

23:15:46 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes...

23:17:08 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Are you sure it's not gonna happen after the Tor container starts .

23:18:07 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: yeah. Heres it simplified in bash https://github.com/nahuhh/basicswap-bash/blob/master/bsx%2Fenabletor.sh

23:18:09 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I mean what if it starts after docker tor setup

23:19:37 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @pw:xmr.mx: It's human work..Human discussion. He did a great job...It's taken months of hardwork

23:20:51 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Basicswap is probably 5yrs old now

23:21:29 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: first (and only) bi-directional xmr atomic swaps

23:21:50 ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah, we still need fix on monero side to have other atomic swap thing to do it right?

23:22:41 pw:xmr.mx: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: You understand I was on about that single line of text right. Not the whole BSX project.

23:22:41 pw:xmr.mx: I did sense huge sarcastic tones but can't be sure these days 😅

23:25:14 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: @ravfx:xmr.mx: To do it fully on chain, monero would have to allow scripting. Bsx has 2 way xmr swaps by using the messaging system used for the orderbook to perform an agreement before the swap starts

23:25:24 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I would add a small guard in the Tor container entrypoint..Close the chapter..For security. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah. Heres it simplified in bash https://github.com/nahuhh/basicswap-bash/blob/master/bsx%2Fenabletor.sh

23:25:58 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I mean for protection

23:27:58 hooftly:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thats how I do it in my system an adapter signature and a 2 way on chain encrypted mailbox

23:29:19 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Please don't mind ...you are a good developer to be honest

23:29:58 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: I am just learning vibe coding shit .

23:37:41 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Try a fresh install check if this can cause the to start with a 1st run failure.. every time fresh install..if that happens..Then non-Docker Installer could avoid this by generating a configuration first and restarting the Tor . Just sayin..

23:39:43 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Non-docker installer generates the config when enabing tor and restarts tor when it does it

23:40:04 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: https://github.com/nahuhh/basicswap-bash/blob/master/bsx%2Fenabletor.sh

23:40:28 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Did you try a fresh install

23:40:35 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes ofc

23:42:01 ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Fresh install allows you to enable tor during the install as well. Enabling tor (--enabletor) does more than just setup torrc, it also modifies the various node config files so they enable onion services etc.

23:42:53 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: Docker behavior is not predictable..It's not that easy that AI can detect .

23:43:15 bikrambiswas:matrix.org: @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Got it