00:06:45
diego:cypherstack.com:
better?
00:06:45
diego:cypherstack.com:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/cypherstack.com/hJbrSeumGlpHLkeclitZluRE.png (image.png)
01:09:51
ofrnxmr:
I say: use the duck
01:10:29
ofrnxmr:
The main thing i dont like, is the ledger & trezor
01:11:12
ofrnxmr:
Too obvious looking of a brand endorsement
01:11:51
plowsof:matrix.org:
thats a kastello enclosure
01:11:51
ofrnxmr:
Soon you'll have coinwallet asking to have their products put into "official" imagery
01:22:48
321bob321:
Is that the ledger with 24/25
01:33:25
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
One of those
10:37:04
syntheticbird:
Having a gradient fade out around the border of the image would be better i think > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/koXCqYUlhBCuGSJIfysjjWJj.png (image.png)
10:37:20
syntheticbird:
YES I'LL SPAM IRC
10:45:29
redsh4de:matrix.org:
@syntheticbird: you mean like so?
10:45:32
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/obtzjhafcvTTzRCBlxdzpJRo.png (image.png)
10:45:47
syntheticbird:
yep
10:45:53
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FAJDaqIZJYMDaNqvZbdLpyoS.png (image.png)
10:45:57
redsh4de:matrix.org:
ye looks nice
13:41:04
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png)
13:41:35
redsh4de:matrix.org:
thoughts on something like this for the exchange page?
13:41:36
redsh4de:matrix.org:
the items would either link to a table with the option, or using :target highlight specific items in a table
13:42:03
redsh4de:matrix.org:
thinking about what kind of UI would be the most helpful to someone who has just heard about Monero
13:42:46
redsh4de:matrix.org:
@diego:cypherstack.com:
13:57:01
ofrnxmr:
Too hard to put things in those categories
13:59:03
redsh4de:matrix.org:
Any suggestions?
13:59:16
ofrnxmr:
1. Any exchange can be used for that. Cex, dex, p2p, atomic swaps
13:59:16
ofrnxmr:
2. Obv some things from the other sections also support fiat
13:59:16
ofrnxmr:
3. Some privacy focused decentralized exchanges do have central authorities
14:00:29
ofrnxmr:
@redsh4de:matrix.org: Probably something like current site, or a matrix like current sites download page, or like new sites download page
14:05:37
redsh4de:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr: 1. That section's meant specifically for newcomers - was made with the thought to prioritize frictionless avenues when addressing newcomers, and instant swap exchanges are that - no need to make accounts, download binaries or run nodes - click a button, enter address, send and done. The idea is to have a table of [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/vu_RkNEKMFo5VzBq ]
14:05:37
redsh4de:matrix.org:
2. Table would have two rows - crypto and fiat, with checkbox or cross
14:05:37
redsh4de:matrix.org:
3. Fixed by changing the description
14:07:19
redsh4de:matrix.org:
I'll do a quick mockup of the full thing i had in mind - but with the tables/matrix this would be like a sidebar which would highlight all rows that apply, smth of that sort > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png)
14:08:15
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
1. We dont want to list instant exchanges. Too many problems. And atomic swaps are technically better, but higher friction.
14:08:32
redsh4de:matrix.org:
What about aggregators?
14:08:59
redsh4de:matrix.org:
Trocador/OrangeFren
14:10:02
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
we also don't list em, though better than listing exchanges directly. Its been suggested to just point to kycnot.me instead
14:11:46
redsh4de:matrix.org:
fwiw there are a few instant swappers listed on the current page
14:11:47
redsh4de:matrix.org:
Generally for something like this a disclaimer bar can be added "anything listed here is not a endorsement, informational purposes only etc" right on top of everything
14:12:05
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Most swappers are doing 10-50 confs (20-100mins), so i personally wouldnt recommend using them
14:12:10
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^
14:12:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
they were added long ago, issues, havent delisted yet
14:13:12
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
New swappers pop up every couple weeks and want to be listed, half of them scams
14:14:20
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Other half do selective scamming, send specially constructed txs, have 100min swap times, etc
14:14:32
redsh4de:matrix.org:
true, in that case listing aggregators would be a good middle ground then for convenient access to newcomers? Trusted, vetting of scams offloaded to them
14:14:32
redsh4de:matrix.org:
I think there are three off the top of my head - Trocador, OrangeFren and Cyphergoat
14:19:11
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
i think the consensus was to point to kycnot.me, but listing the aggregators is still better (for us) than listing / vetting individual swappers
14:19:59
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
And eigenwallet & basicswapdex are better instsnt swappers as well
14:20:23
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Truly trustless and also faster
14:21:13
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
But they arent web-based / require software installation
14:22:10
plowsof:
when erc was site maintainer merchants where stopped being accepted because of the time and upkeep they require, we've seen it with some recent ones https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3A%22Listing+request%22
14:23:30
plowsof:
s/merchants/instant exchangers mainly
14:26:55
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2430
14:26:55
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2508
14:26:55
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
godex scamming ppl
14:29:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
plowsof: @redsh4de:matrix.org , note that i ACK'd listing aggregators, but there was never consensus on that
14:31:30
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
(im not just being a hater.) There have been numerous suggestions to use kycnot.me as well.
14:32:02
plowsof:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2045#issuecomment-3616954828
14:33:02
redsh4de:matrix.org:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: kycnot.me can def be listed at the bottom together with cryptwerk like on the current site , outside of the table layout, so there is a dedicated freeform section for other resources that may not fit in the matrix/table layout
14:34:54
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
https://kycnot.me/?categories=aggregator¤cy-mode=or¤cies=xmr
14:35:18
redsh4de:matrix.org:
im looking it like so: how many links does a user need to click in order to get to where they want to, the less the better
14:35:19
redsh4de:matrix.org:
if there are only 3-4 options and that list does not seem to change, i think it would be better to list those aggregators outright, one less link to click + fits in with the rest relatively well
14:36:13
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
kycnot.me has ratings and reviews
14:36:29
plowsof:
one less link to click but chatgpt does not have to do any leg work for when people complain about them
14:36:42
plowsof:
UX++ but humans have to maintain this
14:39:43
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Usually better than trustpilot etc
14:41:59
redsh4de:matrix.org:
I guess for the aggregator section it could be some pretty button linking to kycnot.me with the filter applied if listing the aggregators is a no go, or some combo of both
14:45:13
plowsof:
https://github.com/cyphergoat is an open source aggregator so the bar for a new service to be created is much lower
14:50:40
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Note that cyphergoat, trocador, and orangefren are all run by community members
15:29:21
redsh4de:matrix.org:
fwiw this is what i had in mind
15:29:31
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/lCpiXpbfaZYDYzpIyKWkwDsV.png (image.png)
15:29:48
redsh4de:matrix.org:
you click on any of the sidebar items, it highlights the appropriate rows
15:30:09
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qxzCJpJpRUPrsMPHDqoDDJMp.png (image.png)
15:30:16
redsh4de:matrix.org:
all without JS
15:31:19
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/HlOUiaYTsDsuqUfrrZBZntHS.png (image.png)
15:33:08
redsh4de:matrix.org:
aggregators etc aside (that can just be turned into one big kycnot.me button) - what about the overall concept? trying to UX-maxx here
15:48:47
ofrnxmr:
general concept looks good. Not a fan of some of the descriptions. id sort sections alphabetically, and id also put decentralized section first
15:54:42
ofrnxmr:
Retoswap isnt anonymous when you have to provide banking details.
15:54:42
ofrnxmr:
bisq and retoswap can arguably be referred to has having intermediaries (since reto doesnt work without being able to communicate with them).
15:54:42
ofrnxmr:
So i'd remove mentions of intermediaries and anonymous from the decentralized sections.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/8qzhk9EKTVZCZG9N ]
15:55:20
ofrnxmr:
And aggregators might not hold your funds, but the swappers do
15:56:12
ofrnxmr:
And "no kyc" for trocador is only true if you use an A rated exchange and dont send stolen funds. Even some A rated exchanges will perform AML checks and freeze the swap if the funds are tainted
15:57:54
ofrnxmr:
And eigenwallet is "ability to purchase xmr" (its not <->. You have to run a different addon program to go from xmr -> btc)
16:26:34
redsh4de:matrix.org:
idk
16:26:40
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png)
16:28:27
redsh4de:matrix.org:
idea: if the aggregator table is kept, the URL in the table can link to the kycnot.me URL of that service
16:28:27
redsh4de:matrix.org:
for example https://kycnot.me/service/trocador
16:28:54
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qeCFNmZpXFgaQVageYtjTLUx.png (image.png)
16:28:54
redsh4de:matrix.org:
first thing the user would see
16:33:10
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
I think this is probably ok > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png)
16:34:41
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Id also put that bisq is btc<->xmr only. You cant buy xmr using anything else there
16:34:43
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
(fiat is only <-> btc)
16:48:33
plowsof:
Maintain a list of aggregators and also link kycnitme?
16:53:31
redsh4de:matrix.org:
there is a case to be made for that - couple long running ones that people tend to refer to and are considered legitimate, and a full list via kycnotme
16:53:43
redsh4de:matrix.org:
same thing with no table would look roughly like this
16:53:50
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/YWRhmwdUJffsjfidbzpoXyur.png (image.png)
16:54:39
redsh4de:matrix.org:
which option out of all three - up to everyone else
16:54:56
plowsof:
+1 for this one ^
18:49:46
plowsof:matrix.org:
order can be randomised at each deploy 😄
18:49:57
redsh4de:matrix.org:
thats doable too :D
18:56:37
ofrnxmr:
Personally, it hurts my brain when things arent sorted logically
18:56:42
ofrnxmr:
Sane goes for wallets page
18:57:27
ofrnxmr:
Looking for something shouldnt require reading the entire page to find it
19:01:29
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@ofrnxmr: And merchants page
19:07:29
plowsof:
reverse alphabetical order?
19:32:45
ofrnxmr:
Numerical 🧠, using chinese numbers 🧠🧠
20:43:15
321bob321:
Layout in arabic way
22:20:05
redsh4de:matrix.org:
mobile could look like this
22:20:10
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qLPKVBPLGcMzNkOPRWuNPItm.png (image.png)
22:20:54
redsh4de:matrix.org:
https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/zIBWrkjmyHmYlvRewcXpEaLE.png (image.png)