12:43:48
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
geonic maybe I'll just block you. say hi to your lookalike ofrn on the other side, garden gnome. bye-bye.
12:44:15
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
thanks to the new bridge you can block individual irc accounts on matrix. love you DataHoarder[m] tks.
12:44:52
DataHoarder:
:)
12:45:04
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
@jbabb:cypherstack.com: where does that post-quantum turnstile thing from @jeffro256:monero.social fall into regular polyseed vs. polyseed++? have you seen?
12:45:08
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
it was shared in latest revuo. one sec.
12:45:23
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
this: https://gist.github.com/jeffro256/146bfd5306ea3a8a2a0ea4d660cd2243
12:45:37
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
also, this: https://stacker.news/items/1356557
12:45:58
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
ah... lol > <@jbabb:cypherstack.com> sorry, it should be "classic++ seeds", not polyseed++
13:49:20
rbrunner7:
@rottenwheel:unredacted.org: As far as I know the seed should not matter. That turnstile does not care about the way you used to build your private spend key bits.
15:04:37
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
Sorry for mixing my terminologies: “polyseed++” is my made up term for polyseed+carrot, which as I understand it will incorporate the pq turnstile > <@rottenwheel:unredacted.org> @jbabb:cypherstack.com: where does that post-quantum turnstile thing from @jeffro256:monero.social fall into regular polyseed vs. polyseed++? have you seen?
15:05:22
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
The classic seeds should also
15:06:04
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
“Classic++” is another made up term for a hypothetical seed extension to embed restore height and some additional to-be-presently-unused feature/upgrade bits
15:12:39
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Why wpuld u need classic++?
15:12:47
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Polyseeed exists
15:13:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Classic++ sounda like "polyseed with 10+ more words"
15:14:39
nioc:
imma gunna see how many 25 word seeds I can memorize
15:15:34
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: what, do you hate security??
15:15:57
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
?
15:16:04
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
polyseed is 128 bits. I bought my bits, I want my bits
15:16:07
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
25 isnt more secure than 16
15:16:26
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
quantum computers might make the difference negligible in the future
15:16:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Isnt the private key 128bits
15:16:32
nioc:
more bits but still polyseed is secure
15:16:37
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
practically, 128 bits is fine
15:16:43
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
no, it's below 128 bits. yes polyseed IS secure
15:17:05
nioc:
compatibility is key
15:17:09
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
I prefer it for usability but would prefer 26-28 word classic seeds with an extension for blockheight so it's all contained
15:17:22
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Roght/ so how os a 4664567 bit seed more secure than the private key?
15:17:53
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
another issue is that I can't convert all my old 25-word seeds to 16-word polyseeds
15:18:17
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
not all classic keys can be represented in the new scheme. that's a major usability gap for me: i want to be able to "upgrade" any classic seeds by embedding a restore height
15:18:29
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
polyseed doesn't achieve this (personal) requirement
15:26:18
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Your okd seeds wont have pfs etc
15:26:20
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
U cant upgrade your seeds to carrot keys w/o generating new wallets
15:36:56
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
so?
15:37:48
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
old seeds can be upgraded with the simple addition of an embedded restore blockheight
15:37:48
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
that doesn't regen the new carrot keys, no
15:37:48
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
it doesn't have to
15:40:46
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Sounds like a waste of time
15:41:17
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
it's a waste of time to gen the carrot keys for restore purposes before its activation height anyways
15:41:54
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
sounds like you hate the users
15:42:00
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
If youre storing an extra 3 words, why not store the height (1 word)
15:42:13
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
ofrnxmr: Enemy of the User
15:42:38
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Joshbadd inventing problems
15:42:54
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
i will consider your opinions valid if you can get rotten and geonic to agree
15:43:24
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
f you make the seed even 1 word longer, its no different than wroting dowm the restore height
15:43:44
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@jbabb:cypherstack.com: i lol'd
15:43:48
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
saving abandon...abandon1234567 is the current "solution"
15:44:21
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
how much time and energy is wasted by syncing from 0 for so many classic seeds?
15:44:40
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@jbabb:cypherstack.com: Abandon...abandon<hashword of restoreheight> is the proposed
15:45:02
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
with some extra words for extra bits which will initially be unused, yes
15:46:20
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
why do we even have a mnemonic phrase? why not just save the keys?
15:46:55
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Cuz u need multiple keys + address to restore
15:47:17
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
depending on the key...
15:47:53
plowsof:
monero uri supports a list of txids for wallet restoration and "almost instant" syncing , which is more convenient for the user. if they want to do arts and crafts they can hand scribble a QR code
15:48:28
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
after fcmp you csnt "skip sync" anymore
15:48:43
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
So it would do full sync from the earliest txid
15:49:04
plowsof:
no rct sync
15:51:13
plowsof:
the monero gui has a pdf for people to put their restore height on :(
15:51:17
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
I do like monero uris, plowsof, and that does include everything I need... thanks for the reminder
15:51:53
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
I just want polyseed functionality with the ability to represent (directly 1-to-1 convert) all my old seeds
15:52:13
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
the only real issue with monero uris is adoption at this point
15:52:22
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
... but polyseed suffers on that point as well.
15:52:29
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Dont we have a height param on uris
15:52:30
plowsof:
so txid list will be deprecated in fcmp, no one likes the user. would a uri still be possible to reduce sync times under fcmp++?
15:52:31
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
@jbabb:cypherstack.com: How?
15:52:34
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
(tho polyseed > uris in an adoption sense)
15:52:39
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: yes
15:53:09
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
monero uri wallet restores just aren't very widely supported afaik
15:54:53
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
plowsof: checking
15:55:57
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Only by modifying the restore height
15:56:16
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
Thentree building has to be sequential, so u cant just scan in txs
15:56:55
ofrnxmr:xmr.mx:
So the earliest txid would set the restore height and it woukd sync normalltly from that point
16:05:51
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
tree building needs to be sequential from the restore point but can be jumpstarted w init_tree_sync_data
16:06:41
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
plowsof: no, txid lists via uri will not help speed up syncs post-fcmp++, at least not with the current code and i'm not sure that it's feasible anyhow
16:06:59
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
there is a manual scan_tx path but it's not for future txs, just for rescanning txs at or below the current sync height
16:08:16
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
key image exports still exist in fcmpland...
16:13:21
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
it does
16:13:21
jbabb:cypherstack.com:
key image export/import can help speed wallet sync. looks like key images could feasibly speed restores unless i'm mistaken. haven't had coffee yet so it's all a bit of a blur
17:13:37
jeffro256:
You definitely can theoretically "skip sync", its just not supported by the wallet at the moment since its kinda complex > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> after fcmp you csnt "skip sync" anymore
17:14:46
ofrnxmr:
I was told (maybe i misunderstood) that you can't because of tree building
17:16:27
jeffro256:
Yeah the tree building makes that code a lot more complicated , but it should still be possible with more or less the same trust assumptions
17:19:24
jeffro256:
For scan_tx specifically, which I think is what youre talking about, we made the choice to not support "future scans" since they would encounter that enote anyways upon a normal refresh , so the complexity wasn't worth it
17:40:44
plowsof:matrix.org:
@loop.ster:matrix.org: hello, under what account name? manual approval is needed for accounts who login via a 3rd party or emails fail to get through
19:07:56
rottenwheel:unredacted.org:
selsta https://xcancel.com/MoneroSpace/status/2029272604675018996
19:08:39
selsta:
ty for sharing
20:30:16
souljaboy2007:matrix.org:
👋
20:34:05
intr:unredacted.org:
anyone have any luck with monero android POS apps on those special android terminals with a printer and such?
20:34:37
intr:unredacted.org:
I wonder which device to go with, as the Alacrity isn't very easy to get in EU
20:34:55
intr:unredacted.org:
and when I looked deeper there's all sorts of brands with dodgy listings and names
20:45:51
agorise:matrix.org:
@intr:unredacted.org: why buy a specialized device? just use a tablet with cake wallet on it or something
20:46:26
agorise:matrix.org:
cake wallet let's you request specific amounts in your local currency from the customers too
20:48:39
intr:unredacted.org:
yeah I know about wallet apps, I'm asking about point of sale apps like Kasisto, XMRpos, etc. on point of sale terminals
20:49:10
intr:unredacted.org:
I think they're cool and I think presentation matters
20:49:31
intr:unredacted.org:
I feel like in-person payment flow is a little too overlooked and could use more attention
20:49:44
agorise:matrix.org:
cool cool 👍️
22:18:38
hbs:matrix.org:
Has anybody used Gummo's https://nevercast.app/ service?
23:17:27
321bob321:
@intr:unredacted.org: Ajs question